dogs

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Vinko
Posts: 180
Joined: 27 Feb 2014, 7:11pm

Re: dogs

Post by Vinko »

Garry Booth wrote:The recently deceased bike fixing guru Richard Ballentine had some strong words on dog defence tactics: he was normally a sensible chap and his bike book is excellent. But he loses it a bit with man's best friend.
"If the dog attacks: one defense is aerosol pepper sprays made for this purpose. They have a range of about ten feet and are light enough to clip to your handlebars. A water pistol loaded with a water-amonia solution will also work but is a good deal less convenient. If you have neither of these and can't or won't climb a tree get a stick or a large rock. No? The bicycle pump. Try to ram it down his throat. In any event, don't cower or cover up, because the dog will only chew you to ribbons. Attack. Any small dog can simply be hoisted up by the legs and his brains dashed out. With a big dog you are fighting for your life. If you are weaponless try to tangle him up in your bike and then strangle him. Kicks to the genitals and which break ribs are effective. If you have got a pump or a stick hold it at both ends and offer it up to the dog horizontally. Often the dog will bit the stick/pump and hang on. Immediately lift the dog up and deliver a very solid kick to the gemitals. Follow up with breaking the dogs ribs or crushing its head with a rock. If worst comes to worst ram your entire arm down its throat. He will choke and die. Better your arm than your throat."



I am a great fan of Richard B's writing, and was sad when he died last year as it was his books that kept me going through difficult London commuting of the 1980s!

The passage above, I believe, caused some great debate and upset when it was published and I understand it was removed (or rather edited and tempered!) in later editions of Richards Bicycle Book. I never had one of the early editions with the above in it and am interested to have finally read what he originally wrote as I had heard about this passage!!

Mind you I think he had a similar view on motorists too :shock:
mrjemm
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Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 4:33pm

Re: dogs

Post by mrjemm »

Garry Booth wrote:...a very solid kick to the gemitals.


Is that like the family jewels? :wink:

Glad I'm spelt with a J!

Will say though, at times on our last trip, I would've tried most anything if it would've stopped the hell-hounds.
ossie
Posts: 1793
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: dogs

Post by ossie »

Garry Booth wrote:The recently deceased bike fixing guru Richard Ballentine had some strong words on dog defence tactics: he was normally a sensible chap and his bike book is excellent. But he loses it a bit with man's best friend.
"If the dog attacks: one defense is aerosol pepper sprays made for this purpose. They have a range of about ten feet and are light enough to clip to your handlebars. A water pistol loaded with a water-amonia solution will also work but is a good deal less convenient. If you have neither of these and can't or won't climb a tree get a stick or a large rock. No? The bicycle pump. Try to ram it down his throat. In any event, don't cower or cover up, because the dog will only chew you to ribbons. Attack. Any small dog can simply be hoisted up by the legs and his brains dashed out. With a big dog you are fighting for your life. If you are weaponless try to tangle him up in your bike and then strangle him. Kicks to the genitals and which break ribs are effective. If you have got a pump or a stick hold it at both ends and offer it up to the dog horizontally. Often the dog will bit the stick/pump and hang on. Immediately lift the dog up and deliver a very solid kick to the gemitals. Follow up with breaking the dogs ribs or crushing its head with a rock. If worst comes to worst ram your entire arm down its throat. He will choke and die. Better your arm than your throat."


Recently deceased = karma for dog owners reading that tripe I reckon.

France if anyone is interested. The farm dogs which are loose dont usually move an inch and simply arent bothered. Its the ones behind fences that get in a bit of a frenzy, usually running the length of the plot which can be a bit of laugh at times.
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foxyrider
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Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: dogs

Post by foxyrider »

only once have I had a canine problem, 2 farm dogs came to see what I was doing (checking the map as it happens) but didn't want me to depart. Shouting, barking and more reasoned chat didn't work (it was in Bavaria, perhaps they didn't understand Anglo Saxon) so I set off only to have them chase me for some distance snapping at my heals. Didn't get properly bitten but a graze on my calf was damned near and did bleed. Not fun especially as I ended up on a dirt track doing a silly speed to 'escape'. :?
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
LollyKat
Posts: 3250
Joined: 28 May 2011, 11:25pm
Location: Scotland

Re: dogs

Post by LollyKat »

ossie wrote:
Recently deceased = karma for dog owners reading that tripe I reckon.

I have just checked my copy. He finishes that section with this: "Many summers ago a little girl who lived down the road from my parent's place was pulled down and killed by three dogs" So not surprising that his attitude is robust.

ossie wrote:France if anyone is interested. The farm dogs which are loose dont usually move an inch and simply arent bothered. Its the ones behind fences that get in a bit of a frenzy, usually running the length of the plot which can be a bit of laugh at times.

Of the three bites I have had the one from the loose French farm dog was the worst :evil:.
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vinyl_theif
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Location: Stony Stratford, uk.
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Re: dogs

Post by vinyl_theif »

From my own experience if you're chased by a pack of dogs then stop, jump off and make loud aggressive noises. Pack dogs [usually] rely upon pack instinct with sheep-like mentality, if one chases the rest follow. Dogs sense fear, so if you don't show it, and frighten the lead (stronger dog) all the others drop off, and without his dependant pack now following he'll soon stop.

If chased by a solo dog then PEDAL, PEDAL and PEDAL..... or use mace.

This is simply from my own experience, I can not guarantee a bite free tour so use at your own discretion. :wink:
mark http://www.wallisonwheels.net England to Singapore
Phil66
Posts: 67
Joined: 10 Jul 2009, 9:46am

Re: dogs

Post by Phil66 »

I always thought you didn't have to worry about dogs, they were all bark..........then I saw this,

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=1&page_id=273087&v=7N


Funnily enough, I saw one of these in Newbury on Sunday, lovely old thing it was.
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jamesgilbert
Posts: 316
Joined: 5 Feb 2013, 4:25pm
Location: Lyon

Re: dogs

Post by jamesgilbert »

That is harrowing reading. It might be worth putting a small warning on that link for those who don't want to see technicolour photos of leg wounds at 8 in the morning :wink:
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simonineaston
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Re: dogs

Post by simonineaston »

They're all different - there's about as much point trying to generalise about dogs and their propensity to attack as there is doing same for humans. They range from totally passive to manic and murderous, regardless of size, just like us. Maybe that's where they learnt it!!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
mrjemm
Posts: 2933
Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 4:33pm

Re: dogs

Post by mrjemm »

simonineaston wrote:They're all different - there's about as much point trying to generalise about dogs and their propensity to attack as there is doing same for humans. They range from totally passive to manic and murderous, regardless of size, just like us. Maybe that's where they learnt it!!


What with pretty much all dogs being "owned" by someone, and nigh on all dog breeds having been selectively bred by humans, that is of course all true.

But not relevant.

Essentially all dangerous things we in the UK encounter (bar geography; cliffs, fast water, ice) are down to humans and human intervention on some level. Unfortunately, dogs are something "we" have turned into what is a significant hazard to encounter. Approaching a dog, you do not always realise it is there. It can attack, and very often will. Attack may not mean dominate or intimidate, after all, it could be a leashed chihauha yipping from a yah's handbag, but more often you cannot know the danger level. Even a bejewelled fashion rat can be a danger if it gets in your wheel (from falling or from an enraged moron). More than anything though, I'd say the biggest hazard from a dog is it's artifacts, now not even confined to the ground, courtesy of the absurd modern trend for decorating shrubbery with the packaged delights. (Why bag and not bin???).

Yes, humans are to blame. But dogs are the hazard. We talk about cars all the time, and that's exactly the same. Cars are not sentient, so it's more extreme, but cars don't get loose (generally, though I wish they were now at that level...), cars are typically only active when a moron is active. Dogs are not like that, dogs are independent of their moron, whether the moron knows it or not.
molly
Posts: 57
Joined: 23 Mar 2009, 6:09am

Re: dogs

Post by molly »

A very angry dog gave chase when I was cycling alone in an isolated part of Central Spain, no cars and no habitation in sight. It just didn't want to give up and I can admit to be very scared as it came within snapping distance and I could see it meant business. Miraculously just when I thought I was done for the road dipped downward and I put distance between us although I didn't dare stop for some considerable time. The only weopons I could see at the time were large stones and despite being an animal lover I was quite shocked at how prepared I was if necessary to grab a couple of them and bash them together across the dogs head!!
PaulB
Posts: 384
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 10:35pm

Re: dogs

Post by PaulB »

I am not sentimantal about any animals. I would not deliberately harm any animal but if a dog had a go at me I would make sure it could never do it again.

Dogs are basically wild animals. We try to domesticate them, give them "pet" names and make them part of the family but I would never trust a dog. How many cases have we heard of where the family pooch has suddenly attacked a child - with terrible results. I would never leave a dog with a child. Get two or three dogs together and their pack instict takes over. They are not human and should not be treated as such.

Of course dog owners automatically assume that everyone will love their dog as much as they do. The worst cases I've had have been caused by a dog on one side of a path and the owner on the other - with one of those extending leads in between!
PJ520
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Location: Seattle WA USA

Re: dogs

Post by PJ520 »

Last summer I rode 4700 miles across the US and a bit of Canada and used a pepper spray twice. The first time was in an Indian reservation in Montana. About six dog came running across a field to greet me. I managed to lose most of them but one was hanging in there so he got the pepper treatment. I'd never used it before and was quite surprised at how it worked. I expected sneezing, pawing at eyes and stuff like that, in fact the dog just stopped, turned round and trotted off back home as if he'd just remembered an important engagement. The next time was in Alberta, a solitary dog with it's owner yelling at it to come back, one squirt and the dog suddenly heard it's owner calling and ambled off back to her.

If you're thinking of a US tour there's a product called Halt sold in bike shops. It's the only one I've tried and it seems to work, it's what I used in the above encounters. Dogs over here can be a pest, especially in Kentucky and on many reservations. If you're going into Canada be sure to declare it at the border. if you're unlucky they may confiscate it, I was lucky they just told me to be sure it wasn't past it's expiration date and let me take it with me.
You only live once, which is enough if you do it right. - Mae West
albal1
Posts: 210
Joined: 2 Feb 2011, 4:09pm

Re: dogs

Post by albal1 »

Surprised nobody carries a few dog biscuits, in the bar bag, rear pocket, in troublesome areas.
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: dogs

Post by Psamathe »

I suspect that most dogs that chase bikes are "chasers" and not just wanting to attack the nearest human being. If they were out to attack the nearest human then they would find far easier "prey" (walkers, postmen, visiting police officer, etc.). And whilst I have never bee chased on a bike, I have observed others who have and having owned a "chaser" dog myself (though he was not bikes but horses, cats, sheep, etc. - though never caused problems), I think that when the movement stops, the excitement goes and the chase ends.

Once at a "dog class" in the forest some cyclists rode past and one dog went after the trailing bike. Rider stopped and so did dog, dog just sat still beside the bike. And just before owner caught-up with a lead, the cyclist went to move off again and dog started the chase again.

So I suspect that should the "bike" attack the dog, then from the dog's perspective the nature of the game changes somewhat. So I think the above suggestion about dog biscuits might easily be the most effective measure.

Trouble is, follow the above advice and you might just come across the one dog around who does want to kill every human being. I do think that attack back will not help. Might work sometimes, but might easily make things a lot worse other times.

Ian
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