Can i ask a question too? Is the troll really so stiff that you need these enormous tyres for comfort?
Thanks martin
26" steel touring bike in the UK
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
I would consider self build as then you would know how to fix it, unless you already do, and you get an idea of tools needed.
If your going for flat bars you should consider bar ends, I have a 1-down with flat bars and spend a lot of time on them.
If your going for flat bars you should consider bar ends, I have a 1-down with flat bars and spend a lot of time on them.
Last edited by 3spd on 1 Jan 2014, 3:16pm, edited 1 time in total.
My worse day on my bike is better than my best day at work!
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Pretty good review of the Oxford here-
http://tomsbiketrip.com/introducing-affordable-custom-built-touring-bikes-from-oxford-bike-works/
Is it me, or are the bar-ends not level though? Looks same in the pic linked above of the oddly mounted low-riders.
http://tomsbiketrip.com/introducing-affordable-custom-built-touring-bikes-from-oxford-bike-works/
Is it me, or are the bar-ends not level though? Looks same in the pic linked above of the oddly mounted low-riders.
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Excellent article. I came across OBW a few months ago. It's the way to buy a bike IMV and it's the right bike to buy. I came across Tom Allen a few weeks ago and signed up for his newsletter. When he then wrote this article, the two entities fused together so to speak: a person who is passionate about real bikes and a man who makes them.
Well spotted mrjemm!
Well spotted mrjemm!
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Have you looked at Spa Cycles in Harrogate? They have a good range of Surly bikes as well as their own make of steel and titanium tourers http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p0 . If you contact them I am sure they can set you up with a couple of bikes to test.
We tested their tourer compared with the urly LHT and decided to go for their Ti model as it was a lot lighter.
We tested their tourer compared with the urly LHT and decided to go for their Ti model as it was a lot lighter.
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
UPDATE:
For a while I've been meaning to update this thread, which my first post on this forum two years ago. It took 18 months to decide (I had the time.. it was a great contrast to my previous bike purchase decision which took all of 1 day) but I have finally ended up with a drop bar Thorn Sherpa. I am pretty happy with it so far but time will tell if it was the right choice.
For others wondering about similar questions, I would now say there is actually quite a wide choice of 26 inch steel touring bikes in the low-mid budget bracket ( < £1500) and that can be had new in the UK. Let's add derailleur-geared and non-self-build to the requirements. I can list a dozen: Surly LHT/DT, Troll, Thorn Sherpa, Oxford Bike Works, Hewitt Cheviot, VFS Fahrradmanufaktur, Ridgeback Expedition, Dawes Coast 2 Coast and Gran Tour (the latter's price needs to drop a bit though), Orbit Harrier Expedition, Stanforth Kibo (? don't know much about this one), On-One steel frame (which possibly they or another shop could build up for you), plus other smaller outfits. Obviously there are a lot more globally, that you could have shipped here, either whole or frame only and have built for you, but either the shipping or build costs will put them out of the budget bracket or they have the disadvantage that the supplier is too far away and you probably don't get to try it out. In the end, the frame and fork is by far the most important piece, and in this bracket all the frames will be built in Taiwan to a fixed (non-custom) range of sizes. Some of the bikes are advertised as being more customisable (in terms of being able to change around components relative to the stated spec.) than others but you get some flexibility with all of them I think.
Most likely you will have to travel in the UK to get to the various shops offering these bikes to meet them and/or to try out the bike. It is hard to find a shop that knows much about touring, with big retailers like Evans cycles, who stock a few of these bikes, perhaps the worst example. Buying online, where some savings can be had, is often advised against but in principle if you are sure about your size and are good at changing around components, it might be fine, the trouble was I didn't know my size and was very concerned about getting it right due to some previous discomfort issues that I attributed to poor fit. I took a number of bikes on short (30 mins), medium (2 hours) and long (1 day) test rides. I did learn a lot from these rides, but I am not sure they were as useful as some people make out. In none of the cases was I able to ride the bike I would actually be buying, either it had the other type of bars on (e.g. Thorn only have flat bar bikes built up for test rides which are built with longer frames than the drop bar versions), or the stem wasn't quite in the right position for me relative to the saddle (and I didn't know what the right position was for me) or the ride was just too short. I could have persevered and done more test riding to get it just right, however it was time consuming. In essence there were too many variables and with my lack of experience of what a touring bike should ride like, I was not able to differentiate between them. In future, if I have to buy another, I think I would have a much better feel for what I want. Experience is a big factor.
In the end I got it down to the LHT vs the Sherpa and though people often associate Thorn with expensive bikes, with their derailleur-geared Sherpa I felt I was getting almost the same value as an LHT built up to my requirements by one of the many dealers in this country (hand built wheels being one of them), and although it was marginal, I went for the Sherpa because I felt I would possibly get better customer service dealing directly with the designer and obviously they have a great reputation. Thorn have a 14 day return policy which can be used as an extended test ride and if you get the frame size wrong, you could swap to the other size within that period, or get a full refund even, but this was not an option for me as I left it too close to a tour I had already planned to do on the new bike, so I had to get it right first time. The decision was a very close call, I could have fitted either of two sizes and after test riding both (in the flat bar versions) I ended up going with the smaller size purely due to a small concern about standover clearance which was a little narrow in the larger size (it was fine on paved roads but I thought if I wanted to do any off-roading on it I might come to regret the lack of extra clearance).
People often talk about touring bikes being heavy and slow. This concerned me somewhat as my previous bike, and the one I have ridden the most, is an alu/carbon road-like bike (specialized tricross - often labelled a cross bike but perhaps more accurately a light tourer, it nevertheless functions pretty well as a road bike though I have never ridden a modern road bike to know for sure) weighing 10kg in its minimal spec, and as I didn't want to be in possession of two bikes simultaneously, I was concerned how much speed/agility I would be compromising by swapping to the tourer. The comparison is still ongoing (I have ended up keeping the tricross, for now), but what I can say is this: yes the Sherpa itself in full touring spec - 2 inch mondials, front+rear racks, mudguards, three bottle cages, bar bag mount, brooks saddle - does come in at 15.5kg, I can also get it down to its minimal spec (28-559 tyres, no mudguards or racks) where it weighs just 12kg. Whilst this is noticeably heavier than 10kg when lifting it, I was surprised to find that on day rides I was averaging around 20km/h moving speed on both bikes. I don't know how much of that is frame geometry, or whether weight really doesn't matter as much as you'd think. Incidentally, the wheels on my Sherpa are exactly the same weight as on the tricross, as I went for the middleweight Grizzly rims. Finally, even in fully loaded mode I was not at all that much slower than 20km/h with 2 inch mondials and 25-30kg of luggage - obviously such averages depend on the terrain and also improve with training, but I was still pleasantly surprised the supposedly sluggish mondials were so quick on paved roads when pumped to a good pressure.
This got a bit long. Hope someone finds it useful.
For a while I've been meaning to update this thread, which my first post on this forum two years ago. It took 18 months to decide (I had the time.. it was a great contrast to my previous bike purchase decision which took all of 1 day) but I have finally ended up with a drop bar Thorn Sherpa. I am pretty happy with it so far but time will tell if it was the right choice.
For others wondering about similar questions, I would now say there is actually quite a wide choice of 26 inch steel touring bikes in the low-mid budget bracket ( < £1500) and that can be had new in the UK. Let's add derailleur-geared and non-self-build to the requirements. I can list a dozen: Surly LHT/DT, Troll, Thorn Sherpa, Oxford Bike Works, Hewitt Cheviot, VFS Fahrradmanufaktur, Ridgeback Expedition, Dawes Coast 2 Coast and Gran Tour (the latter's price needs to drop a bit though), Orbit Harrier Expedition, Stanforth Kibo (? don't know much about this one), On-One steel frame (which possibly they or another shop could build up for you), plus other smaller outfits. Obviously there are a lot more globally, that you could have shipped here, either whole or frame only and have built for you, but either the shipping or build costs will put them out of the budget bracket or they have the disadvantage that the supplier is too far away and you probably don't get to try it out. In the end, the frame and fork is by far the most important piece, and in this bracket all the frames will be built in Taiwan to a fixed (non-custom) range of sizes. Some of the bikes are advertised as being more customisable (in terms of being able to change around components relative to the stated spec.) than others but you get some flexibility with all of them I think.
Most likely you will have to travel in the UK to get to the various shops offering these bikes to meet them and/or to try out the bike. It is hard to find a shop that knows much about touring, with big retailers like Evans cycles, who stock a few of these bikes, perhaps the worst example. Buying online, where some savings can be had, is often advised against but in principle if you are sure about your size and are good at changing around components, it might be fine, the trouble was I didn't know my size and was very concerned about getting it right due to some previous discomfort issues that I attributed to poor fit. I took a number of bikes on short (30 mins), medium (2 hours) and long (1 day) test rides. I did learn a lot from these rides, but I am not sure they were as useful as some people make out. In none of the cases was I able to ride the bike I would actually be buying, either it had the other type of bars on (e.g. Thorn only have flat bar bikes built up for test rides which are built with longer frames than the drop bar versions), or the stem wasn't quite in the right position for me relative to the saddle (and I didn't know what the right position was for me) or the ride was just too short. I could have persevered and done more test riding to get it just right, however it was time consuming. In essence there were too many variables and with my lack of experience of what a touring bike should ride like, I was not able to differentiate between them. In future, if I have to buy another, I think I would have a much better feel for what I want. Experience is a big factor.
In the end I got it down to the LHT vs the Sherpa and though people often associate Thorn with expensive bikes, with their derailleur-geared Sherpa I felt I was getting almost the same value as an LHT built up to my requirements by one of the many dealers in this country (hand built wheels being one of them), and although it was marginal, I went for the Sherpa because I felt I would possibly get better customer service dealing directly with the designer and obviously they have a great reputation. Thorn have a 14 day return policy which can be used as an extended test ride and if you get the frame size wrong, you could swap to the other size within that period, or get a full refund even, but this was not an option for me as I left it too close to a tour I had already planned to do on the new bike, so I had to get it right first time. The decision was a very close call, I could have fitted either of two sizes and after test riding both (in the flat bar versions) I ended up going with the smaller size purely due to a small concern about standover clearance which was a little narrow in the larger size (it was fine on paved roads but I thought if I wanted to do any off-roading on it I might come to regret the lack of extra clearance).
People often talk about touring bikes being heavy and slow. This concerned me somewhat as my previous bike, and the one I have ridden the most, is an alu/carbon road-like bike (specialized tricross - often labelled a cross bike but perhaps more accurately a light tourer, it nevertheless functions pretty well as a road bike though I have never ridden a modern road bike to know for sure) weighing 10kg in its minimal spec, and as I didn't want to be in possession of two bikes simultaneously, I was concerned how much speed/agility I would be compromising by swapping to the tourer. The comparison is still ongoing (I have ended up keeping the tricross, for now), but what I can say is this: yes the Sherpa itself in full touring spec - 2 inch mondials, front+rear racks, mudguards, three bottle cages, bar bag mount, brooks saddle - does come in at 15.5kg, I can also get it down to its minimal spec (28-559 tyres, no mudguards or racks) where it weighs just 12kg. Whilst this is noticeably heavier than 10kg when lifting it, I was surprised to find that on day rides I was averaging around 20km/h moving speed on both bikes. I don't know how much of that is frame geometry, or whether weight really doesn't matter as much as you'd think. Incidentally, the wheels on my Sherpa are exactly the same weight as on the tricross, as I went for the middleweight Grizzly rims. Finally, even in fully loaded mode I was not at all that much slower than 20km/h with 2 inch mondials and 25-30kg of luggage - obviously such averages depend on the terrain and also improve with training, but I was still pleasantly surprised the supposedly sluggish mondials were so quick on paved roads when pumped to a good pressure.
This got a bit long. Hope someone finds it useful.
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
For all those with any doubts about the suitability of a Surly Disc trucker for the type of trip described.
We recently put up a young guy who had cycled from Hong Kong to the Uk via China, Tibet, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq etc. He used the 26" wheeled version of the Surly and said it performed very well. The only replacements were a cassette and chain in Pakistan and a tyre.
He said the worst drivers from a cyclist's point of view were in France and England.
We recently put up a young guy who had cycled from Hong Kong to the Uk via China, Tibet, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq etc. He used the 26" wheeled version of the Surly and said it performed very well. The only replacements were a cassette and chain in Pakistan and a tyre.
He said the worst drivers from a cyclist's point of view were in France and England.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Much of the above is opinion and you need your own. Bar type especially. Discs? No way would i tackle a big trip without hydraulic disks. They need ***all maintainence and don't break. I would carry a spare lever and pads but i would do that for all brake types. Wheel size? Sound logic but not essential.
As you have proved to yourself that the choice is very limited I would think that it is obvious that what you want is a less common choice so you have to do some thinking rather than just hoping to walk into a shop.
To my mind , you are looking at a custom build is buy the frame you want and add to it. Not being happy with the skills needed doesn't bode well for repairs on tour. No offence meant. That way you get your spec at a better price.
As you have proved to yourself that the choice is very limited I would think that it is obvious that what you want is a less common choice so you have to do some thinking rather than just hoping to walk into a shop.
To my mind , you are looking at a custom build is buy the frame you want and add to it. Not being happy with the skills needed doesn't bode well for repairs on tour. No offence meant. That way you get your spec at a better price.
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Just to clarify any possible confusion, as my post was rather long, I am no longer looking for advice as to which bike to get, because I have already got it and am very happy with it 
. My post was intended as a comment on my bike purchase experience in case anyone might find it useful and also if I didn't say it before, thanks for all the advice it was incredibly useful. But may this thread continue if there is still mileage in it. Regarding type of trip being considered, I am not sure exactly what that is any more, it remains to be determined, but the bike is an investment in many future trips, not limited by continent or tarmac, and I decided after giving each one of the points a lot of thought, that I wanted steel not aluminium, 26 inch not 700c, rim brakes not disc brakes, derailleur not internal gear hub, and drop bars.
. My post was intended as a comment on my bike purchase experience in case anyone might find it useful and also if I didn't say it before, thanks for all the advice it was incredibly useful. But may this thread continue if there is still mileage in it. Regarding type of trip being considered, I am not sure exactly what that is any more, it remains to be determined, but the bike is an investment in many future trips, not limited by continent or tarmac, and I decided after giving each one of the points a lot of thought, that I wanted steel not aluminium, 26 inch not 700c, rim brakes not disc brakes, derailleur not internal gear hub, and drop bars.
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
22camels wrote:weight really doesn't matter as much as you'd think
This. A thousand times this. Lightweight bikes are easier to accelerate but the difference is such a small part of total weight of a loaded bike that the difference to cruising speed is minimal. At speed, air resistance dominates and geometry and setup matters more.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Thanks for coming back with your thought processes.
I agree about the test ride thing. For Joe public it is very difficult to assess a new bike in a short test ride. A recent post had a relative novice deciding which bike to buy in a series of test rides. Well he is a better man than me. I'm not saying don't have a test ride, but I just don't think for most people it can be as meaningful as some people make it out to be.
I chose my bike on what I wanted and what others rode and recommended. I had a test ride and it felt good, but what new bike wouldn't after my 12 year old MTB convert. The first proper test ride I had was on the first tour (2.5 months) I used it on.
Three years later I think I have just got the set up on my LHT correct (perfect?) .
I agree about the test ride thing. For Joe public it is very difficult to assess a new bike in a short test ride. A recent post had a relative novice deciding which bike to buy in a series of test rides. Well he is a better man than me. I'm not saying don't have a test ride, but I just don't think for most people it can be as meaningful as some people make it out to be.
I chose my bike on what I wanted and what others rode and recommended. I had a test ride and it felt good, but what new bike wouldn't after my 12 year old MTB convert. The first proper test ride I had was on the first tour (2.5 months) I used it on.
Three years later I think I have just got the set up on my LHT correct (perfect?) .
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bretonbikes
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Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Personally I'm not a fan of hydraulic discs for expedition touring. They may well be the best performing brakes but - 1 - a careless moment putting the bike into a rack, or it falling over off its stand and you can bend a disc. Once bent they never go back straight. 2 - pads, they wear out and you either need to carry several sets because you can never be sure of getting your specific pad in the wilds - 3 - 'Expedition' implies rough stuff of some king. You will fall off. You will get sticks caught in wheels and all sorts of other hazards, I'm not sure how hydraulic pipes will stand being pulled and bashed that hard and once ripped out you're stuffed (this last part is something I am only speculating on) - 4 - if you break a wheel/hub you'll need to get a disc specific wheel whereas with rim brakes any cheapo 26" will do.
For expeditions you need simple and as universal as possible. Cable V-brakes give more braking that you will ever need (I've come off many cols fully loaded and never lacked braking power). Yes you wear rims, but on decent rims by the time you're through them the wheel needs rebuilding anyway.
For expeditions you need simple and as universal as possible. Cable V-brakes give more braking that you will ever need (I've come off many cols fully loaded and never lacked braking power). Yes you wear rims, but on decent rims by the time you're through them the wheel needs rebuilding anyway.
38 years of cycletouring, 33 years of running cycling holidays, 8 years of running a campsite for cyclists - there's a pattern here...
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Strikes me as typically sensible advice from breton.
I have some magura hydraulic rim brakes on one of my bikes and they are great - the best brakes i have on any of my bikes (never having ventured into any sort of disc) but i wouldn't want to rely on them on tour, let alone on ecpedition.
For a day ride bike, i would totally recommend hystaulic rim brakes - haven't touched mine in years though they could now do with a bleed.
I have some magura hydraulic rim brakes on one of my bikes and they are great - the best brakes i have on any of my bikes (never having ventured into any sort of disc) but i wouldn't want to rely on them on tour, let alone on ecpedition.
For a day ride bike, i would totally recommend hystaulic rim brakes - haven't touched mine in years though they could now do with a bleed.
Sweep
Re: 26" steel touring bike in the UK
Yes they are tough enough, I have toured extensively with them. Carry a few spares and a bleed hose adapter, don't worry about it after that. I did upgrade the hoses to braided stainless steel though. I guess something could catch and yank the hoses out of the nuts or something, but that doesn't seem to have happened in years of touring, and I don't think like that anyway.
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