Help with Italy
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mertonmick
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 4:48pm
italy
I am thinking of cycling from northan Italy to the southern most point of Italy in spring of next year. Can anybody help with advise Re routes or any other information as I have never cycled in Europe. Thanks, mertonmick.
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eileithyia
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- Location: Horwich Which is Lancs :-)
Re: italy
While i realise this is an End 2 End it might be better for it to be posted on the touring thread?
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
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mertonmick
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 4:48pm
Re: italy
Good advice, will do, thanks,mertonmick
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mertonmick
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 4:48pm
Help with Italy
I am planing to cycle from north Italy to the southernmost tip of italy in spring next year. My wife will be suport in the car. I have never cycled in Europe before so any advice on routes, the law, does and donts would be very helpfull. I am 69 years old and just completed Lejog in 16 days. Thanks, mertonmick
Re: Help with Italy
A few things…
It will be hilly. Usually if you want to go from A to B, once you’re south of, say, Bologna, there will be a climb of at least two or three hundred metres in between. You can reduce this if you go along the coast, but even then, south of Naples, it will be scenery, scenery, scenery. Hills.
If you go down the west coast, it would be exaggerating to say that it’s one long beach resort from la Spezia to Catania, but you get the picture. I don’t know the east coast, but have heard that you have to be Italian to appreciate it. If you choose a central route, it will be more varied, more ethnic, much more interesting. And much hillier.
In the north – Piemonte, Lombardy, Tuscany – it’s clean, organised, hardworking, feels kinda German. As you go south, each succeeding province – Umbria, Lazio, Abruzzo, Campania – feels a bit poorer, less well-organised, bigger potholes, etc. By the time you’re in Calabria, you know you’re a lot nearer to Africa than to Germany.
Traffic: Italians drive with a different set of unwritten rules than ours. Rule one is that you’re expected to have your wits about you; so there’ll only be one signpost at a junction (if you’re lucky), not two or three like here. And it’s OK to do a three-point turn in the middle of a busy road, people will see you and stop of course. Once you understand their rules, I’ve found Italian drivers to be both cautious and courteous (though not everyone agrees with me!). Rule two is that, especially in the south, cyclists are exempt from all other rules. You can ride on the pavement or the wrong side of the road, jump red lights, go the wrong way up a one way street or round a roundabout, nobody will bat an eyelid, not even the police. They’re expecting it. Except close to big cities, I don't remember having any problems with heavy traffic.
The weather: don’t go too early. I was there in April this year and it rained every day (March had been lovely apparently). Don’t go too late: by late June the temperature in Calabria can be in the high thirties: carry plenty of water.
Things to see: very personal. I loved Pisa, hated Rome. Loved Bologna, hated Florence. Naples is western Europe’s only third-world city, you’ll love it or hate it, but give it a look. The Amalfi coast is stunning, and can only really be appreciated from a bicycle. Stop over at Paestum: I’m not generally a ruins fan, but these are a fabulous atmospheric picnic spot. If you happen to stop at Amantea, there’s a very nice litle B&B over a bar called La Spagnola. Syracuse is nice; Palermo’s a bit of a toilet.
Eat adventurously: Italian food is fabulous, and you can get tired of pizza.
Learn a little Italian – they’ll love you for it.
I was 59 when I did Leeds to Palermo, loved it, been back twice since, hopefully touring there again soon. Have a great ride. Let us know how you get on.
It will be hilly. Usually if you want to go from A to B, once you’re south of, say, Bologna, there will be a climb of at least two or three hundred metres in between. You can reduce this if you go along the coast, but even then, south of Naples, it will be scenery, scenery, scenery. Hills.
If you go down the west coast, it would be exaggerating to say that it’s one long beach resort from la Spezia to Catania, but you get the picture. I don’t know the east coast, but have heard that you have to be Italian to appreciate it. If you choose a central route, it will be more varied, more ethnic, much more interesting. And much hillier.
In the north – Piemonte, Lombardy, Tuscany – it’s clean, organised, hardworking, feels kinda German. As you go south, each succeeding province – Umbria, Lazio, Abruzzo, Campania – feels a bit poorer, less well-organised, bigger potholes, etc. By the time you’re in Calabria, you know you’re a lot nearer to Africa than to Germany.
Traffic: Italians drive with a different set of unwritten rules than ours. Rule one is that you’re expected to have your wits about you; so there’ll only be one signpost at a junction (if you’re lucky), not two or three like here. And it’s OK to do a three-point turn in the middle of a busy road, people will see you and stop of course. Once you understand their rules, I’ve found Italian drivers to be both cautious and courteous (though not everyone agrees with me!). Rule two is that, especially in the south, cyclists are exempt from all other rules. You can ride on the pavement or the wrong side of the road, jump red lights, go the wrong way up a one way street or round a roundabout, nobody will bat an eyelid, not even the police. They’re expecting it. Except close to big cities, I don't remember having any problems with heavy traffic.
The weather: don’t go too early. I was there in April this year and it rained every day (March had been lovely apparently). Don’t go too late: by late June the temperature in Calabria can be in the high thirties: carry plenty of water.
Things to see: very personal. I loved Pisa, hated Rome. Loved Bologna, hated Florence. Naples is western Europe’s only third-world city, you’ll love it or hate it, but give it a look. The Amalfi coast is stunning, and can only really be appreciated from a bicycle. Stop over at Paestum: I’m not generally a ruins fan, but these are a fabulous atmospheric picnic spot. If you happen to stop at Amantea, there’s a very nice litle B&B over a bar called La Spagnola. Syracuse is nice; Palermo’s a bit of a toilet.
Eat adventurously: Italian food is fabulous, and you can get tired of pizza.
Learn a little Italian – they’ll love you for it.
I was 59 when I did Leeds to Palermo, loved it, been back twice since, hopefully touring there again soon. Have a great ride. Let us know how you get on.
Re: Help with Italy
What nirakaro says is pretty spot on. It really depends on where you want to go.
East coast - starts off nice (Venice, lake Garda, Ferrara, Bologna, Mantova, and San Marino) but isn't brilliant from then on
West coast is a beach the whole way down
Central is where all the interesting stuff is, but is basically a mountain range for the whole distance.
On when to go, go early or go late. Dont go in July or August. This is peak season for Italy and everywhere is rammed. Its also bloody hot. By preference I'd actually head over to North Italy in early to mid September as its still warm (25 - 30) but not busy. September is not considered holiday season in Italy and everywhere is surprisingly quiet.
First things first is pick you're starting point. There's lots of air carriers that fly into the north, mostly to Milan, but there are a lot of other airports as well. If you wanted to get the train instead the high speed rail to Paris goes to Milan central.
If it we're me I'd do something like this:
fly to Milan, ride down through Piedmonte to my Aunties near Ovada (probably not a stop you need to make
)
- From there down to Genova and along the coast through Camogli and Portofino and then on through Cinque Terre to Pisa.
Genova is a surprisingly interesting city for a working port
Camogli and Portofino are beautiful, and if you go at the wrong time of year full of tourists/celebs. Its Italy's riviera.
Cinque Terre is a national park with 5 villages in it. very popular because its so beautiful
Pisa other than the tower and basilica, for me, was a bit crap. Worth the half hour for the tower though
- From Pisa across to Florence, through San Gimignano, down to Siena, Pienza, across round lago Trasimeno to Assisi down to Orvieto then into Rome
Florence was ok when I went there. The camp site is on a hill side over looking the city and there's lots of places to go. The Uffizi and Pitti palace are worth a look if you're interested in that sort of thing.
San Gimignano is definitely worth an afternoon and has a good campsite near it.
Siena is for me the city to go to in Tuscany, just an amazing place
Pienza I haven't been to but its a world UNESCO site, lago Trasimeno is very nice, and Assisi has an amazing Basilica
Orvieto is an on the top of a volcanic plug, so very impressive. bit of climb on a bike though. Signorelli's art can be seen in the church.
Rome is... Rome.
From Rome I'd head down to Naples because Pompai is fantastic then the Amalfi coast is definitely worth a look and I'd definitely stay on the coast onto the Cilentan coast which in my opinion is nicer than the Amalfi as only the Italians seem to have found it!
East coast - starts off nice (Venice, lake Garda, Ferrara, Bologna, Mantova, and San Marino) but isn't brilliant from then on
West coast is a beach the whole way down
Central is where all the interesting stuff is, but is basically a mountain range for the whole distance.
On when to go, go early or go late. Dont go in July or August. This is peak season for Italy and everywhere is rammed. Its also bloody hot. By preference I'd actually head over to North Italy in early to mid September as its still warm (25 - 30) but not busy. September is not considered holiday season in Italy and everywhere is surprisingly quiet.
First things first is pick you're starting point. There's lots of air carriers that fly into the north, mostly to Milan, but there are a lot of other airports as well. If you wanted to get the train instead the high speed rail to Paris goes to Milan central.
If it we're me I'd do something like this:
fly to Milan, ride down through Piedmonte to my Aunties near Ovada (probably not a stop you need to make
)- From there down to Genova and along the coast through Camogli and Portofino and then on through Cinque Terre to Pisa.
Genova is a surprisingly interesting city for a working port
Camogli and Portofino are beautiful, and if you go at the wrong time of year full of tourists/celebs. Its Italy's riviera.
Cinque Terre is a national park with 5 villages in it. very popular because its so beautiful
Pisa other than the tower and basilica, for me, was a bit crap. Worth the half hour for the tower though
- From Pisa across to Florence, through San Gimignano, down to Siena, Pienza, across round lago Trasimeno to Assisi down to Orvieto then into Rome
Florence was ok when I went there. The camp site is on a hill side over looking the city and there's lots of places to go. The Uffizi and Pitti palace are worth a look if you're interested in that sort of thing.
San Gimignano is definitely worth an afternoon and has a good campsite near it.
Siena is for me the city to go to in Tuscany, just an amazing place
Pienza I haven't been to but its a world UNESCO site, lago Trasimeno is very nice, and Assisi has an amazing Basilica
Orvieto is an on the top of a volcanic plug, so very impressive. bit of climb on a bike though. Signorelli's art can be seen in the church.
Rome is... Rome.
From Rome I'd head down to Naples because Pompai is fantastic then the Amalfi coast is definitely worth a look and I'd definitely stay on the coast onto the Cilentan coast which in my opinion is nicer than the Amalfi as only the Italians seem to have found it!
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mertonmick
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 4:48pm
Re: Help with Italy
Thanks to you both for all this information, I will have to get the maps out and look at routes. Its just like end to end, easy to say but a lot of work to execute.
cheers, mertonmick.
cheers, mertonmick.
Re: Help with Italy
This is the main!! road!! to the south out of Naples, for you (though not for Madame assuming she takes the autostrada). Perhaps you can see the large diagonally laid cobbles? The signposting, IIRC, is about on a par with the road. This is an extreme case though.
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mertonmick
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- Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 4:48pm
Re: Help with Italy
Looks interesting, thanks, mertonmick
Re: Help with Italy
Another thread with some potentially useful information... viewtopic.php?f=16&t=46481&hilit=+italy
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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mertonmick
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 4:48pm
Re: Help with Italy
Thanks for this reply, full of usefull information. It seems that the more I learn the less I know. Cheers, mertonmick.
Re: Help with Italy
If you do end up going to Rome, check out the Via Appia as a way out of the south of the city. Theres about 16k you can ride of it that goes through a national park and is traffic free (buses only I think).
Re: Help with Italy
My twopenneyth worth.
Ride aggressively - as in - hold your line, and keep up with the traffic. Italians appreciate cyclists who don't hold back, you will be safer if you ride as they drive. Like with a rabid dog, don't act timid.
Of course, the lorries are a different case in point, and you have to give way to them mothers . South of Rome and the Appian Way I would head for the hills east of Latina , and make for Monte Cassino, then down past Casserta to Naples and the Amalfi coast to points south and , or alternatively the coastal route through Anzio to Mondragone ( a little boring in actual fact....) and cobbled in part (ouch)
Joke advice: Drink coffee at the bar - it's cheaper. Don't ask for latte after 11 in the morning
Don't drink more than one beer in one sitting - you're branded
Dont bother with giant supermarkets like Auchan - nobody goes to supermarkets in the south and they are not cheaper than the smaller "supermarkets".
The east coast is a highway to hell and to be avoided like syphilis.
It's all very interesting, and Italians love to see somebody going for it, although my impression was they regard touring cyclists as homeless
Cycling to southern Italy is like necking a bottle of Metaxa. Everybody should try it once, but maybe not repeat the experience.
The ONLY thing you might not like about Italy is that absolutely 100 per cent everywhere is fenced off. There is no such animal as municipal land south of Rome. Corruption rules. The ex premier owns 20 sq kilometres of coastal land north of Anzio for example.
Madness.
PS I got nothing but kindness from Italians, great country, very nice people ( the Africans in Mondragone too) but it was Christmas and they felt sorry for me on my (happy) lonesome (PS the date in the photo is wrong -it was 28/12/2011 - not that it matters a jot)
Ride aggressively - as in - hold your line, and keep up with the traffic. Italians appreciate cyclists who don't hold back, you will be safer if you ride as they drive. Like with a rabid dog, don't act timid.
Of course, the lorries are a different case in point, and you have to give way to them mothers . South of Rome and the Appian Way I would head for the hills east of Latina , and make for Monte Cassino, then down past Casserta to Naples and the Amalfi coast to points south and , or alternatively the coastal route through Anzio to Mondragone ( a little boring in actual fact....) and cobbled in part (ouch)
Joke advice: Drink coffee at the bar - it's cheaper. Don't ask for latte after 11 in the morning
Don't drink more than one beer in one sitting - you're branded Dont bother with giant supermarkets like Auchan - nobody goes to supermarkets in the south and they are not cheaper than the smaller "supermarkets".
The east coast is a highway to hell and to be avoided like syphilis.
It's all very interesting, and Italians love to see somebody going for it, although my impression was they regard touring cyclists as homeless
Cycling to southern Italy is like necking a bottle of Metaxa. Everybody should try it once, but maybe not repeat the experience.
The ONLY thing you might not like about Italy is that absolutely 100 per cent everywhere is fenced off. There is no such animal as municipal land south of Rome. Corruption rules. The ex premier owns 20 sq kilometres of coastal land north of Anzio for example.
Madness.
PS I got nothing but kindness from Italians, great country, very nice people ( the Africans in Mondragone too) but it was Christmas and they felt sorry for me on my (happy) lonesome
(PS the date in the photo is wrong -it was 28/12/2011 - not that it matters a jot)
Re: Help with Italy
Wonderful thread which I'll be watching.
Bemused by the person who didn't like Rome - maybe from a cycling perspective?
My cycling experience in Italy is from Sardinia (which i take it you are not headed for) - on the basis of extensive experience there I'd second the reports (counter-inuitive I know) that the drivers are generally excellent with cyclists - far better than Brits. <With pedestrians they are all-too-often a disgrace though>
Been to Pisa - struck me as a small not especially interesting town - the tower looks exactly like it does in the pics and you'll have seen so many of these in the past you slightly wonder why you bothered - I wouldn't go out of my way to pedal to it..
My understanding is that, by law (mind you the law is a curious beast in Italy) you have to wear a reflective jacket outside towns from dusk to dawn - also in tunnels. Best to comply as doubtless drivers, like drivers anywhere, will exploit anything you have done wrong.
It's also my understanding that in Italy you risk a fine of between €24-92 if you don't use a bike lane when this is provided.
Beyond terrible in my view - any experienced cyclist surely knows that cycle lanes SHOULD be avoided at least in some instances - never been a problem for me in the past as cycling provision in the past was below minimal, but may become more of a problem.
Details if you read Italian/can translate via google
http://www.codicedellastrada.net/index. ... ta_cic.htm
Bemused by the person who didn't like Rome - maybe from a cycling perspective?
My cycling experience in Italy is from Sardinia (which i take it you are not headed for) - on the basis of extensive experience there I'd second the reports (counter-inuitive I know) that the drivers are generally excellent with cyclists - far better than Brits. <With pedestrians they are all-too-often a disgrace though>
Been to Pisa - struck me as a small not especially interesting town - the tower looks exactly like it does in the pics and you'll have seen so many of these in the past you slightly wonder why you bothered - I wouldn't go out of my way to pedal to it..
My understanding is that, by law (mind you the law is a curious beast in Italy) you have to wear a reflective jacket outside towns from dusk to dawn - also in tunnels. Best to comply as doubtless drivers, like drivers anywhere, will exploit anything you have done wrong.
It's also my understanding that in Italy you risk a fine of between €24-92 if you don't use a bike lane when this is provided.
Beyond terrible in my view - any experienced cyclist surely knows that cycle lanes SHOULD be avoided at least in some instances - never been a problem for me in the past as cycling provision in the past was below minimal, but may become more of a problem.
Details if you read Italian/can translate via google
http://www.codicedellastrada.net/index. ... ta_cic.htm
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TwoPlusTen
- Posts: 531
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Re: Help with Italy
Portland wrote:My understanding is that, by law (mind you the law is a curious beast in Italy) you have to wear a reflective jacket outside towns from dusk to dawn - also in tunnels. Best to comply as doubtless drivers, like drivers anywhere, will exploit anything you have done wrong.
It's also my understanding that in Italy you risk a fine of between €24-92 if you don't use a bike lane when this is provided.
Beyond terrible in my view - any experienced cyclist surely knows that cycle lanes SHOULD be avoided at least in some instances - never been a problem for me in the past as cycling provision in the past was below minimal, but may become more of a problem.
Details if you read Italian/can translate via google
http://www.codicedellastrada.net/index. ... ta_cic.htm
Leave this one with me. I haven't had a serious chance to practise my super-formal Italian in ages so I'll have a pop at it tonight and get a colleague at work (who is Italian) to check it before I post it.
EDIT there's a whole bunch of articles here (beyond just that one) so I'll really be able to sharpen my axe on it.