Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
byegad
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by byegad »

langsett wrote:The Police response does seem to blame the cyclist, yet the photo accompanying many reports looks as if the road surface is worn and with a bad rut or subsidence on the bend in the photo.

As already posted these will cause problems for cyclists and if not careful, skillful or lucky could be loss of control?

Interestingly I am told the accidents weren't laden tourers but lightweight road bikes


My first thought on looking at the photo was...


Lousy road surface, accident bound to happen.

So was my second and third thought.
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

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LollyKat
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by LollyKat »

byegad wrote:My first thought on looking at the photo was...
Lousy road surface, accident bound to happen.
So was my second and third thought.

My first thought if I came across something like that would be...

Lousy road surface, so take care!
Malaconotus
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by Malaconotus »

There has now been another fatality on this descent... http://road.cc/content/news/157369-poli ... ent-369468
pwa
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by pwa »

It's a classic fast hill requiring caution. When I went down with my family (wife on back of tandem, kids on Islabike Luaths, all with panniers) I bellowed instructions to keep speed low and make sure everything was under control before each bend. The kids looked nervous, but that's how I wanted it. We all arrived at the bottom safely. Hills like this are part of the Pennine experience, and I think it would be unreasonable to blame the route for accidents. Any adult cyclist undertaking a ride should take responsibility for the condition of their own brakes and their competence to use them. I was glad that the route took us down this hill rather than up it!
PJ520
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by PJ520 »

fatboy wrote:I wish that I'd gone down it rather than up! Complete pig of a climb but it's bound to be a busy route for bikes with or without the way of the roses existing!
+1 I stalled completely going up it and resorted to 24 inch gear.
You only live once, which is enough if you do it right. - Mae West
heatonrider
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by heatonrider »

just ridden it this weekend - a descent all right but not much worse than many of the hills in the north of uk .. caution is required as for any descent!
hgtevelo
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by hgtevelo »

There is a lot of scaremongering about this decent. I admit I know the road very well which makes it a whole lot better, but there are many, many worse descents in Yorkshire than Greenhow. Quite a bit of traffic on it, and if local, better to take peat lane which runs parallel to it, with virtually zero traffic, mind you bit of a steep corner on that! But so steep you would just have to crawl down it
beardy
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by beardy »

There is a lot of scaremongering about this decent


As two people have died trying to come down it in not many years, I dont think that you can call it just scaremongering!
hgtevelo
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by hgtevelo »

Make no mistake, what has happened is truly awful, one accident is one too many, BUT as I said there are many worse descents around. I admit as said, I know the road very well, so admit my view my well be clouded somewhat, but any reasonable care taken on it, and hopefully there would be no problems. Having said that, an accident can happen on any decent through no fault of the cyclist at all.

There is a large volume of traffic going down there now, because of the way of the roses, so purely because of that the chances of this happening again are unfortunately getting higher. The Way Of The Roses route may be better to go down peat lane, while a narrow road, hardly any traffic either way, in fact in all the years I have cycled on it, never seen one car.

In NO way I'm I saying this is nothing other than a awful, horrendous tragedy, a broken bone is enough, never mind this, but while the use of the word scaremongering, may not be correct, with due care, this road is not any worse than any other 15% descents. What a lot of people don't take into account is the extra weight they are carrying on descents, which can make a massive difference.

Plus to be fair, on the official way of roses map, they do point out the difficulties of this decent.
HarryD
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by HarryD »

Like hgtevelo I use Greenhow all year round as it's my local and best way back from Wharfedale. As he says there are many more challenging descents in the Dales. Apart from the odd motorcyclist motor traffic is generally OK. His comment about carrying extra weight are worth noting as the extra weight can significantly effect bike handling in terms of giving extra momentum and changing balance for cornering. Low slung panniers are one thing but backpacks raise the centre of gravity. One thing not mentioned is that not all brakes are equal and many are not equal to a loaded bike on a steep and twisty descent.
I do disagree about using Peat Lane as an alternative because of it's shaded position and very low usage it can get quite mossy for many months of the year. When the trees drop their leaves they can be treacherous if damp and can hang around for ages.
So if you're doing the Way of the Roses enjoy your trip, enjoy the challenges and stay safe.
hgtevelo
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by hgtevelo »

Fair point Harry about the trees, although that only really matters (albeit a very valid point) on the sharp bend right at the very bottom of peat lane, and it is so sharp, you would just have to go slow on it, no alternative. Either way (and there are pluses and minuses to both greenhow and peat lane) care needs to be taken and its one thing doing them just on a road bike, entirely different on a touring bike with panniers etc.
stumpym4
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by stumpym4 »

While i totally agree that the hill down is very steep , i dont see an issue if your a reasonable cyclist with common sense and ride it at a suitable speed, i rode it in march with snow on the ground and i never died !
just use your brain and your brakes properly :)
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531colin
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by 531colin »

The sort of RIDER who runs out of road on Greenhow Hill will also run out of road on Peat Lane.
Greenhow Hill is a wide road with reasonable sight lines most of the time.
I have tried to link the start of the tricky bit of the descent of Peat Lane.....its the worst bit of film I have seen from the Google van....https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.074111,-1.769164,3a,75y,90h,49.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIghmynM4PqmAnYEeH9kv2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
You can come flying down a straightforward descent (narrow, but open with reasonable sight lines) to be faced with this....the road dives into a tunnel of trees, the stone walls converge to line the gutters. The road is liable to be covered in debris washed down, there is no fast motor traffic to clear the debris. Right on the bend there is a stone water-bar in the road surface.......how close did you have to get to see it on the Google image? How soon would you see it plunging into the semi-darkness under the trees, wearing fashionable cycling sunglasses?
Follow down Peat Lane on Google until you get to the house on the left, and thats the worst of it finished......if you make the first bend, you will be going slow enough to make the rest.
There is an excellent farm cafe at the top of Greenhow Hill, I went there with a group of "new cyclists". We went up Peat Lane, (walking the steep bit), the plan was to return via Duck Street, but that was closed by a road traffic accident (one of the quarry lorries in the ditch). Nobody fancied going down Greenhow Hill, so we went back down Peat Lane. We got to just above my link (where the camper van is parked ) and everybody else got off and walked: I was the only one to ride down the tricky bit.
They all think I am reckless, I'm inclined to think they lack skill.........but perhaps I would have got off and walked if I had been on a fashionable bike with twitchy steering, narrow tyres and dual pivot brakes.
My view is that anybody whose brakes work can get down Greenhow Hill in safety if they exercise reasonable care, but I would not send an inexperienced rider down Peat Lane on their own.
boblo
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by boblo »

Hmmm, shirley it's all about staying within the limits of braking performance? My wife and I got the loaded tandem down there last year on rear brakes alone. I'd managed to wear the front pads down to the metal innards and didn't want to score my rims. Cue one Arai, one vee and lots of steam at the bottom when I sprayed the Arai with water.

If you let it get away from you (or suffer brake failure), you're going to struggle to get it back under control.
hgtevelo
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Re: Way of the Roses..an accident waiting to happen?

Post by hgtevelo »

531colin wrote:The sort of RIDER who runs out of road on Greenhow Hill will also run out of road on Peat Lane.
Greenhow Hill is a wide road with reasonable sight lines most of the time.
I have tried to link the start of the tricky bit of the descent of Peat Lane.....its the worst bit of film I have seen from the Google van....https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.074111,-1.769164,3a,75y,90h,49.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIghmynM4PqmAnYEeH9kv2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
You can come flying down a straightforward descent (narrow, but open with reasonable sight lines) to be faced with this....the road dives into a tunnel of trees, the stone walls converge to line the gutters. The road is liable to be covered in debris washed down, there is no fast motor traffic to clear the debris. Right on the bend there is a stone water-bar in the road surface.......how close did you have to get to see it on the Google image? How soon would you see it plunging into the semi-darkness under the trees, wearing fashionable cycling sunglasses?
Follow down Peat Lane on Google until you get to the house on the left, and thats the worst of it finished......if you make the first bend, you will be going slow enough to make the rest.
There is an excellent farm cafe at the top of Greenhow Hill, I went there with a group of "new cyclists". We went up Peat Lane, (walking the steep bit), the plan was to return via Duck Street, but that was closed by a road traffic accident (one of the quarry lorries in the ditch). Nobody fancied going down Greenhow Hill, so we went back down Peat Lane. We got to just above my link (where the camper van is parked ) and everybody else got off and walked: I was the only one to ride down the tricky bit.
They all think I am reckless, I'm inclined to think they lack skill.........but perhaps I would have got off and walked if I had been on a fashionable bike with twitchy steering, narrow tyres and dual pivot brakes.
My view is that anybody whose brakes work can get down Greenhow Hill in safety if they exercise reasonable care, but I would not send an inexperienced rider down Peat Lane on their own.



Some good points there. Can't argue with the bit about not going down peat lane unless experienced rider, that's good advice to be fair. In many ways it's better going UP peat lane than Greenhow if you are going into Grassington etc. Yes a steep section at the start if going up, but it's very short and advantage is almost zero traffic.

Be tough with panniers mind :D
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