pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

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rollinbone
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pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by rollinbone »

somewhere in Wales
somewhere in Wales

During a tour to Wales this year that involved going up many a steep incline
I devised a plan to lose some weight from the bike setup. Aiming for a loss of at least 5kg.

On return I thought maybe removing the front panniers would be part of the plan.

The Turbus low-loader weighs in at about .85kg together with the Arkel T28 bags make a total of about 2.4kg
The rest could be lost through not carrying as much food around, less clothing and losing some other bits and pieces (have you noticed how much soap weighs?)

I always think I'm carrying too much when I'm on the bike. But when at camp, especially when theres no a food shops around, feel I've not got enough. Its a fine balance.

I've done a short test run using fully loaded Arkel GT54's (approx 15 kgs) and no front panniers and it seems OK but have not tried it on any really steep hills or in the rain.
I did notice that the steering was more 'normal', but do wonder if the front panniers help with the grip particuarly in wet conditions.

I guess the approx full weight of new rig would be:-
bike 18Kg, klickfix bar bag + camera + satmap etc 2.5kg, arkelGT54 + stuff 15kg, tent 1.5kg = Total approx 37 kgs

Its not that there is MORE weight on the back than before, its the lack of weight on the front that interests me.
Should the weight be more evenly distributed to get a safer ride?
Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of difficulties that may arise by loading bike mainly over the rear wheel?
Last edited by rollinbone on 22 Aug 2011, 6:42am, edited 2 times in total.
delport
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by delport »

The thing i noticed, if i pack too much in the panniers i forget where my items are.
Clothing, i've now cut down to a maximum of one set of clothes to change into, i used to carry two to three changes of clothes for a 2 to 3 week trip.
But the places i go to have launderettes, so there is no point in carrying multiple sets of clothes.

Food is another one that can weigh a lot, if i go to France i feel at times that i need to carry 2 days food supply at the weekend as the shops close too early, the whole shopping experience makes me appreciate what we have here in the uk, with 24 hour supermarkets, and local shops open from 7 am to 9pm and 11pm.
I cycle through France and just see places closed, i don't know when the public holidays are in France so if the whole town closes down i have to have food in panniers.
I usually carry 1.5 to 3 litres of bottled water.

And the answer to 2 or 4 panniers, ideally 2 rear panniers is best for me, but i do use 3 panniers or 4 panniers some times.
simonhill
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by simonhill »

If you can get it in two, only take two. If you take four you will always fill them. I've now ridden tens of thousands of kms only ever with rear panniers.

Another advantage is if you are off bike (bus, train, plane, etc) it is much easier with two.

Go light, go easy!
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al_yrpal
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by al_yrpal »

I guess the approx full weight of new rig would be:-
bike 18Kg, klickfix bar bag + camera + satmap etc 2.5kg, arkelGT54 + stuff 15kg, tent 1.5kg = Total approx 27 kgs


Shouldn't that be 37kg?


I never use front panniers, just big 56L Altura Arran rear panniers and a bar bag. Even when camping when I have a large stuff sack with airbed tent and sleeping bag in it on top of the rack (see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53139&p=451311&hilit=subway+tourer#p451311 ). There is always plenty of spare space in my rear panniers for food and its easy to put a supermarket bag of food on top with a bungee. Yes the bike is a little rear heavy but that is not a problem even with my 15st on it. I recently got a Spa/531colin rear wheel so I am confident about that. Bike, lock and water is 16kg and total load including camping gear is another 16kg totalling 32kg.

Al
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nmnm
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by nmnm »

I quite enjoyed the fully-loaded handling. I imagined myself to be a truck driver. On the other hand, the handling, for stability and safety, always feels better to me with the weight just on the back. I can change direction at the front quicker, even if the back is slow to follow, whereas with the fully loaded set up I trundle ahead regardless.

In the pic, the bike could be leaning against that gate and saving you half a kilo in prop stand, maybe, if you're still feeling too heavy.

Thing with two panniers is it's harder to find stuff, so reducing quantity of stuff and having things in regular places can help.
Hypocacculus
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by Hypocacculus »

I too only ever have used two panniers, so I can't compare the difference in handling. I've never found it to be too much of a problem, except for a couple of weeks ago when I loaded them up with potatoes from the allotment. I'm not doing that again.... :shock: Basically, if it starts to affect the handling.... you have too much luggage.

As for braking in the wet, my last bike didn't stop even when it was unloaded...

Need load lightening inspiration? Check out this nutter...

http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.com/
Ron
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by Ron »

I prefer to use four panniers and spread the load. It makes little difference to the handling whilst cycling but makes the bike easier to handle when it has to be pushed or lifted, eg on and off buses, ferries and trains, up and down stairs and escalators. Also it makes it easier to find specific items of luggage if they are distributed around four panniers. There is no harm in starting off with spare space in the panniers, this leaves the option of picking up extra items that may take your fancy as the tour progresses.
hoogerbooger
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by hoogerbooger »

Agree that with 4 bags it's hard to stop yourself packing extra stuff that you don't really need.

travelling light can give you extra range and options& always a good discipline. An Ortlieb stuff sac or the like is good to give some extra capacity for food if shops are infrequent & can double up as a duffle bag for short hikes.

On a big trip with plenty of time I'm inclined to cover every angle with my packing & end up with 4 bags. I think my bike handles better with 4 bags particularly on loose up & downhill. Too much on the back with nowt on the front can lead to problems cuts and grazes ( ask my missus - although she says its the terrible routes I choose).

I tend to leave the front rack on whatever - You can always improvise & strap stuff to it then
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rualexander
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by rualexander »

Four panniers for me, always good to spread the load between front and back.
If you're riding up those steep climbs in Wales in low gear then some weight at the front will help keep your front wheel in contact with the road!
rollinbone
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by rollinbone »

thanks for all these thoughts and ideas - keep 'em coming

about my maths - oops yes the total should be 37kgs (have corrected it)

the kickstand i have thought about but find it v. useful when there is nothing to prop the bike against ie on campsites
and you dont have to lean the bike against some shopkeepers window or flimsy hedges etc - will keep thinking

the reason i got the Arkels are because i found with the 'bucket' type bags i could never find anything
with these, especially the GT54s (3kgs), you know exactly where a thing is - on and off the bike - and you can get at it thanks to the extensive zips
When installed in the tent they become like a chest of drawers - a bit like home really

However the Arkel GT54 covers that themselves weigh in at about 200g so i may try to do without-
I let the front ones get wet this year and although not billed as waterproof
they dried out v. quickly when moving. I have to have everything like clothing in waterproof bags anyway.
Ivor Tingting
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by Ivor Tingting »

A full set of 4 panniers with bar bag for me. Only take the necessities. Weight is spread around so panniers aren't jam packed and there is space to carry a couple of days food and lots of water if need be. Bike handles a lot better with front and rear panniers. Going down steep long descents with braking for tight hairpins the thought of riding a bike with all the weight on the rear including you doesn't inspire confidence. Also on twisty unpaved tracks you need good balance and having all your gear and you over the rear wheel is not good IMHO. The only time I take two is when riding really light, these could be front or rear panniers only. I went for a period of using only fronts which was good.
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Edwards
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by Edwards »

I have tried using only the rear and did not like the way the front was light when trying to park the bike. I also did not like having something large like a sleeping mat on the top of the rear as it caught the wind terribly going past one gate and had me across the road.
The system I developed was to use 4 and fill them completely. This was easy as I do not compress anything (including sleeping bag) just used the stuff sack but not pull the straps at all same for clothes.
The tent I put in small light front panniers with no stuff bag as it is not needed, fly in one side inner in the other. I use these as wet and damp bags for waterproofs as well.
This way I do not have to open the pannier with the dry stuff until it is in the tent.
A fair bit of discipline is required but if you pack the bulky essentials first this takes up a lot of the space and helps.
Then if I do need extra capacity for any reason I can soon compress stuff and get some.
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Vorpal
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by Vorpal »

I've never toured with anything but two rear panniers. But any extra capacity I have, I seem to take up with stuff I acquire along the way, so I'd be afraid to take much unused capacity on tour. I'd probably end up doubling the carried weight by the time I finished :shock:

I could see taking 4 panniers if I were touring someplace without the convenience of B&Bs, supermarkets and camping sites. But touring anyplace in the UK or continental Europe, two is enough.
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PH
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by PH »

I've tried both and still haven't made my mind up! The weight has always been manageable, though it's easy to tell yourself the reason you're struggling up a hill is that extra 5kg, when I think it's usually just because it's a hill. I'm sure it makes some difference, but even on your Welsh tour how much distance was actually going uphill? On the flat I think the difference is minimal and of course you're a bit faster downhill. One thing I am sure of is that not carrying enough stuff to be comfortable is more likely to spoil a trip for me than carrying a few extra Kg. To avoid the unexpected running out of food situation, I aways carry light dried food to get me through a day if that arises.
My present packing is two panniers, the tent on top of them, a handlebar bag for valuables and a saddlebag for anything I'm likely to need in the day. This way I have no need to open the panniers from one camp to the next and can alway find what I need. I am considering changing the saddlebag to a long flap version, this would give the capacity to carry a bag of shopping.
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rollinbone
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Re: pannier bags 2 or 4 ?

Post by rollinbone »

my Wales trip was through mid wales then along the Pembrokeshire coast etc
Mid Wales was not too bad but found the Pembrokeshire coast just a series of steep hills up and down all day
Some hills had signs that they were 20% but I was off the bike and pushing the bike on lesser ones than those
That said - its a great place to visit
campsite @ st davids
campsite @ st davids

the next one I'm planning is over towards east anglia and up the coast from there - that will be a lot flatter so 2 or 4 bags will not matter weightwise so much.
After that I hope to go to Scotland for 2-3 months, in 2013 I think, so hope to get this sorted by then
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