Schwalbe Big Apple or Marathon Supreme

[pascoa341]

Thinking of getting new balloon type tyres after using normal ones for as long as I can remember. These two seem the most suitable for European touring, but I cannot really see any great differences between them. I would assume the Supreme is a bit stronger as it is more or less 10 pounds more expensive. However, what I am more wondering about is how they do on gravel tracks as I like to ride on these. Does anyone have experience with both these tyres that can tell me about their experiences?

[Dudley Manlove]

Supremes a couple of hundred grms lighter than the Big Apple?

I've used the Supremes on the MTB commute which often had 5-10miles of bridleway between road riding. They handle it fine mostly and resistance to the hedgerow clippings, think only puncture in 4k+ riding have been a flint/glass shard. As might expect will skate about a bit on rolling gravel at speed, but suppose the intetion is to get from A to B in comfort not go downhilling.

[al_yrpal]

Those are OK for road but would be useless in a bit of mud.

These..... http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... iser-32121 however, will roll just like your choices on the road because they have a continuous centre bead, AND will cope with muddy stony tracks with ease. I did the outer hebrides Skye and a bit of the highlands on these, mostly on the road. And, they are a fraction of the price

Al

[willem jongman]

The Supremes are lighter and a bit more puncture resistant. The Big Apples are cheaper, will last rather longer, and are more comfortable at lower pressures (the sidewalls are more flexible). By all accounts they are also faster. Since Big Apple puncture protection is in fact rather good I would prefer the Big Apple. It is a magical tyre. Yes, it will be challenged in the mud, but so are nearly all other touring tyres. We have never had problems on gravel roads, far from it. As for the sizes, I have used both the 50 mm and the 60 mm. The latter is even more comfortable, but I did not like the mushy handling. Also, mudguards will be a problem on the 60 mm, as will be some v brakes. If you want the practical maximum in comfort and width, there is now also a 55 mm BIg Apple. In reality these tyres are about 5 mm narrower than spec on most rims. If you want another affordable touring tyre, but with a bit more tread than the Big Apple, have a look at the ordinary Schwalbe Marathon, or their Hurricane. The latter has ribs on the side, so may present some nasty surprises when you lean the bike in fast descents. My vote would go for the Big Apple.
Willem

[Mattie]

I feel a bit bad about this post because I do not want to give the wrong impression about the Supreme.

On my 1,100 mile tour last year the new Sepreme Folding split after about 1,00 miles so fited the spare I was carying in Orleans.

Admitedley I was carrying about 25 kilos of luggage and the tyres were well inflated, which may be beyond their design limits, but it still split and had to be replaced.

The front was ok and the bike flew along with them fited but that may be the price to pay. (Tyre shown 700x35 marathon supreme folding)

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[willem jongman]

I had hoped this would not happen anymore. There have been many such stories about the early versions of the tyre, and Schwalbe did make improvements. Apparently it still happens. Some of my friends have given up on them, other and equally experienced high mileage riders still swear by them.
Willem

[pascoa341]

Ouch, that does not look good with the Supreme. I hope it just was a bad one. Interesting to read that the tyre seems to get some mixed opinions with some loving them and others not really thinking much of it. Thanks for the information. I now have another tyre coming into the equation. Through a friend I can get some cheap new Continental Citycontacts. Are these any good, or are the Schwalbe options much better.

[byegad]

I think that tyre shows some rubbing just above the rim mark, could a brake block have been rubbing the tyre?

OR is it damaged where the rim mounted it.

[Mattie]

I only spoted this damage by chance as it could not all be seen with the tyre still on the rim. I could see a small wooly bit right where the tyre joined the rim and could not make out what was going on, so took the tyre off and saw a the rest of the damge that spread to the left and right. I picked at it a bit to see just how close it was to failure and that patch was down to single fibres holding it together.

It certainly wasn' brake block damage, if anything the brake blocks were running off the bottom of the rim as they wore out. This damage was right where the tyre leaves the rim and bulges out, and looks as thought the tyre has been seperated from the bead. I put it down to overloading a lightweight tyre, that may also have been a bit to narrow for the job (The tyre being the Folding version which is even lighter). I don't think that it's a coincidence that this damage happened to the rear tyre where all the weight is.

I am a bit new to cycle touring so do not have that much experience with these tyres and what loads will do to them so am reluctant to blame a tyre when it may be my own fault for overloading it.

But still it failed through what I thought was normal use and I thought it best to let others know.

[willem jongman]

These tyres are meant for heavy duty loaded touring.
Willem

[531colin]

I only spoted this damage by chance as it could not all be seen with the tyre still on the rim. I could see a small wooly bit right where the tyre joined the rim and could not make out what was going on, so took the tyre off and saw a the rest of the damge that spread to the left and right. I picked at it a bit to see just how close it was to failure and that patch was down to single fibres holding it together.

It certainly wasn' brake block damage, if anything the brake blocks were running off the bottom of the rim as they wore out. This damage was right where the tyre leaves the rim and bulges out, and looks as thought the tyre has been seperated from the bead. I put it down to overloading a lightweight tyre, that may also have been a bit to narrow for the job (The tyre being the Folding version which is even lighter). I don't think that it's a coincidence that this damage happened to the rear tyre where all the weight is.

I am a bit new to cycle touring so do not have that much experience with these tyres and what loads will do to them so am reluctant to blame a tyre when it may be my own fault for overloading it.

But still it failed through what I thought was normal use and I thought it best to let others know.

Thats a classic description of what they call a "flange split" . What happens is the edge of the rim chafes through the tyre sidewall as the tyre flexes and spreads out on the road a bit. Its made worse by under- inflation (as the tyre spreads more) not by over -inflation. Im not familiar with these tyres, but lots of tyres have a re-inforcing strip of cloth just where this damage is. If the strip is wrongly positioned in that bit of the tyre it will fail quickly. This tyre has no wear at all! The only other thing I have seen was on my own winter bike where road salt had corroded the rim to a fair imitation of a file.

[Mattie]

Ah well Colin, live and learn.

I think it was probably a combination of things then that led to this failure. After your post I did an internet trawl and found a Tyre Q & A by CJ on the CTC website.

In this case the failure was probably caused by me running a wider underiflated tyre on a fairly rarrow rim. Sounds about right ! (and the tyre may have been a bit of a lightweight making it worse !)

Anyway CJ's Q & Answers can be found at this link: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3520

Lesson learned

[531colin]

Dont beat yourself up, Mattie, we've all been there! I reckon you were carrying about 4 stone of luggage, which should be OK if you're not too heavy. Do you know if the pressure you were running compares with whats written on the tyre? A tyre with a light sidewall really should have the chafing strip I mentioned, and they are sometimes not stuck in the exact right place. Difficult to see with a black sidewall!

[rickangus]

Have you considered the Schwalbe Marathon Racer? They fold, are almost as slick as the Supremes and have a reflective side stripe and a 'drive' for bottle dynamos.

[willem jongman]

They are really a different kind of tyre - much faster and more fragile. The Supremes on the other hand are tyres for loaded touring.
Willem