Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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horizon
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by horizon »

boink wrote:Gosh. turn your back for a minute and theres cut n' paste mania and red type all over the shop. Thanks for the advice on the Kara Kum, Cunobelin. What are you riding Michael R? I could upgrade my old Galaxy to have butterflies I suppose but I'm 46 and haven't had a new bike since I was...well 40, but that was hybrid. Now can we get back on track? Recommendations?


Oh, we're on track all right. boink - the track is that you don't need butterflys (or butterflies!) - you need handlebars at the right height for you.

But on to recommendations (as you ask): lots of yoga, a good osteopath, more stretching while cycling (off the bike), drop bars at the right height, and possibly to realise that the Kara kum is a great bike - for the over fifties. :wink:
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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CREPELLO
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by CREPELLO »

531colin wrote:
CREPELLO wrote:In defence of Dawes, I built up a 2009 Galaxy frameset last year and the steerer was of a good length, with 6cm of spacers left on the steerer when I sold it. Too their credit, I think Dawes do actually 'get' the message of what touring cyclist's need, reverting from the trend towards compact frames. The steering tube was a generous 17.5cm as well (57cm frame), enabling a pretty good upright position.


Going from memory (which is risky!) the adjustable ahed stem which Dawes fit gives 4cm adjustment. If you had 6cm of spacers, Dawes must have supplied an "uncut" fork with your 57cm frame. All the sizes use the same fork, so you got a fork intended for the biggest size - 60 cm I think. When you buy a whole bike, the steerer is cut to a length Dawes deem suitable for that size - basically to fit the headset and 4cm adjustment.
As an aside, Dawes use the same fork on all the sizes, despite the fact that the head angle varies for the different sizes, I think from memory again the difference in head angle between the largest and smallest sizes is one and a half degrees. So somewhere in the middle of the size range the fork offset matches the head angle, but the small bikes have more trail than is ideal, and the large bikes have less trail than is ideal. That's bike "designers" for you! The geometries are all listed on Dawes website.

EDIT just checked the site, its the Ultra Gal. that has the widest range of sizes, with 1.5deg. variation in head angle.
Well darn, Colin! I canna better that for authority. You don't work in a bike shop do you? I guess not - you're too knoweldgable for that kind of job. :wink:
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horizon
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by horizon »

horizon wrote:
boink wrote:Gosh. turn your back for a minute and theres cut n' paste mania and red type all over the shop. Thanks for the advice on the Kara Kum, Cunobelin. What are you riding Michael R? I could upgrade my old Galaxy to have butterflies I suppose but I'm 46 and haven't had a new bike since I was...well 40, but that was hybrid. Now can we get back on track? Recommendations?


Oh, we're on track all right. boink - the track is that you don't need butterflys (or butterflies!) - you need handlebars at the right height for you.

But on to recommendations (as you ask): lots of yoga, a good osteopath, more stretching while cycling (off the bike), drop bars at the right height, and possibly to realise that the Kara kum is a great bike - for the over fifties. :wink:


Actually that sounds a bit strong, boink - seriously though, we are concerned about your predicament but if butterflys are your choice then I respect that, obviously. (I would still consider looking at your general position on the bike though as you are, despite perhaps your own perception, a young man and should be OK riding without back pain.)
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
boink
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by boink »

OK. I've got a chiropractor, had physio, do stretching and all that. Just got a weak lower back and subject to muscle pulls. I'm not going to yoga classes and I'm not going to ballet either. My bars are roughly parallel with the saddle as it is. I never really bother with the drops. My set up was fine a year or two ago. I reckon, from reports on here and elsewhere, that butterfly bars could be the answer to my need to get a bit more upright at times and give variety in terms of hand positions during a long day.

I'm pleased to be regarded anywhere as a young chap, by the way, but as the kara kum is only suitable for the over 50's, is there an off the shelf alternative with butterfly bars available for under 1K?
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horizon
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by horizon »

boink wrote: but as the kara kum is only suitable for the over 50's, is there an off the shelf alternative with butterfly bars available for under 1K?


hi boink - it was meant as a joke but I think the Karakum is really a trekking style bike (Dawes used to classify it as their top end trekking bike but now put it under touring). That means you might find it a bit slow and lumpy - I have this image of a couple in their fifties doing a nice, easy bed and breakfast tour - well loaded in both senses. My Sardar came with butterfly bars and they worked fine - I swapped them back to drops but I did use them for a year. I can't think of a touring bike with butterflys but the conversion is dead easy - the bike shop will do it. From what you said you wanted, a Galaxy with butterflys would be ideal (or another brand but essentially the same bike). And yes, I do think you are young enough to expect to enjoy problem-free and pain-free cycling so I sympathise with your back problem and I hope that over time it improves to what it should be.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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531colin
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by 531colin »

Its a very expensive conversion to put butterflies on a bike with drop STIs. New brake and gear levers, new front mech. to go with "mountain" shifter.
I would ask for prices for a conversion, and a build up starting from a bare frame. That way you can hand pick parts, and also (apparently) get an uncut steerer.
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I put bullhorn bars on my tourers...

Post by Gearoidmuar »

Due to an accident I have a tender thumb and found that honking with drop bars a bit painful, so I tried proper bullhorn bars on Lejog last year. They were a revelation. They are very very comfortable as they give you a huge range of reach and are superb (even for the thumb enabled) for climbing. I ordered a Thorn Raven with the same bars afterwards and have the Rohloff shifter on a thingy underneath the bars.

Bottom Line. Bullhorn bars are MORE comfortable than drop bars at any height. For touring, ideal.
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Re: I put bullhorn bars on my tourers...

Post by 531colin »

Gearoidmuar wrote:Due to an accident I have a tender thumb and found that honking with drop bars a bit painful, so I tried proper bullhorn bars on Lejog last year. They were a revelation. They are very very comfortable as they give you a huge range of reach and are superb (even for the thumb enabled) for climbing. I ordered a Thorn Raven with the same bars afterwards and have the Rohloff shifter on a thingy underneath the bars.

Bottom Line. Bullhorn bars are MORE comfortable than drop bars at any height. For touring, ideal.


Its the range of reach Im interested in. I bought Profile aero base bars about 44cm. wide, but theres only fore and aft room for one hand position. I havn't found a bar thats narrow enough for me and gives me change of reach. I just dont like wide bars! How wide are yours?
byegad
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by byegad »

Yes when I bought my Club Tour Thor left the tube alone telling me they'd space the ahead set and let me choose to cut it once I was happy with the set up. The cost to them was a few extra spacers on the tube to take up all the slack.
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horizon
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by horizon »

531colin wrote:Its a very expensive conversion to put butterflies on a bike with drop STIs. New brake and gear levers, new front mech. to go with "mountain" shifter.
I would ask for prices for a conversion, and a build up starting from a bare frame. That way you can hand pick parts, and also (apparently) get an uncut steerer.


Sorry Colin, yes you are right: it was a quick job when I reconverted as I had the old parts - yes, it did include the brakes etc - but I didn't change the front mech. If you already have V brakes, you are looking at the cost of bars, brake levers and gear levers - would a bike shop do a quid pro quo perhaps? But still no off-the-shelf recommendation (even Thorn don't like putting butterflys on, though they will do it (but it may breach the £1000 limit).
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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georgew
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by georgew »

Many of the problems with the height of the bars on touring bikes could be avoided if manufacturers would provide frames with longer head tubes. The difficulty in juggling for the correct stem angle and length would then be lessened. Tony Oliver had the right idea when designing touring frames.
freebooter
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by freebooter »

horizon wrote: but I didn't change the front mech.


So are you running a road front mech with mtb shifters? I am looking to convert my bike from drops to butterfly bars as well. I have heard conflicting advise on whether it is necessary to change the fd. The 'official' advice seems to be that they use differing cable pull and should be changed. However, I have seen people say they didn't bother and the road fd works fine with mtb shifters.

At the moment I was thinking of leaving it for now and seeing if I like the bars first. My current one is a Shimano Tiagra.
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Re: I put bullhorn bars on my tourers...

Post by Gearoidmuar »

531colin wrote:
Gearoidmuar wrote:Due to an accident I have a tender thumb and found that honking with drop bars a bit painful, so I tried proper bullhorn bars on Lejog last year. They were a revelation. They are very very comfortable as they give you a huge range of reach and are superb (even for the thumb enabled) for climbing. I ordered a Thorn Raven with the same bars afterwards and have the Rohloff shifter on a thingy underneath the bars.

Bottom Line. Bullhorn bars are MORE comfortable than drop bars at any height. For touring, ideal.


Its the range of reach Im interested in. I bought Profile aero base bars about 44cm. wide, but theres only fore and aft room for one hand position. I havn't found a bar thats narrow enough for me and gives me change of reach. I just dont like wide bars! How wide are yours?


Around 44 I think. I'm not at home at the moment so I can't measure them. You have a continuous area around the sides where you can lay your hands and this gives you more variable hand position than drop bars. I have two such handlebars. One which is fatter on my previous tourer and one on the Thorn. On this the bars came back in in front but I cut these bits off to fit my handlebar bag. These bars are thinner in diameter than the first. I would've thought that fatter would've been more comfortable, but the opposite is the case.
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Re: I put bullhorn bars on my tourers...

Post by 531colin »

Gearoidmuar wrote:
Around 44 I think. I'm not at home at the moment so I can't measure them. You have a continuous area around the sides where you can lay your hands and this gives you more variable hand position than drop bars. I have two such handlebars. One which is fatter on my previous tourer and one on the Thorn. On this the bars came back in in front but I cut these bits off to fit my handlebar bag. These bars are thinner in diameter than the first. I would've thought that fatter would've been more comfortable, but the opposite is the case.


When you get the chance, I'd love to know eg. brands/suppliers/width. I guess the smaller diameter tube will fit "mountain" components, which makes life easier. I'll look at SJSC website!
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Post by Gearoidmuar »

Image

I had this piccy in a previous email so managed to winkle it in here. It's a closeup of the bar. The mess on the left is a sponge under a GPS, a good way to carry the things as it absorbs shock and stops them getting switched off.
You can see the narrowness of the bar and how it curves. There was a bit which curved back a bit at the front but I hacksawed this off to fit my barbag. SJSC have a variety of bars like this.
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