Touring bike with butterfly bars?

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Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby boink » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:39 pm

I've decided it might be time to switch to butterflies due to back probs - and the fact that my
Galaxy is getting on. I'm not a fast rider 10 - 15 mph average at best, but don't want to go any slower
so a heavy mountain bike type machine won't suit. Just want something reliable, under a grand and
available on cycle to work scheme. Nice low gearing for climbing and certainly front and rear
racks preferably. Any recommendations?

Cheers in advance,

Mike
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby MikeMarsUK » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:44 pm

You could always spec-up another Galaxy with butterfly bars?
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby CREPELLO » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:55 pm

Although butterfly bars are great, bikes with drop bars are often set up too low for the touring cyclist, with little difference to that of the sports bike setup. The drops should be set up high, perhaps with a shorter stem, to take the weight of the bars. It's not the bars that make or break a back, but their position.
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby Cunobelin » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:04 pm

My wife used a Dawes KaraKum for years which is a Dawes "Expedition" bike.

Image

DOn't worry abut the bars, they can easily be altered to a flatter position as required.
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby Michael R » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:07 pm

I wish they would do Galaxies with butterflys.

Ihave a neck problem but no problem now . I did 45 miles this afternnon
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby Ron » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:03 pm

Michael R wrote:I wish they would do Galaxies with butterflys.


I asked my supplier to fit butterflies on my new Galaxy, and that is just what he did, and I have been :) ever since.
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby horizon » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:57 pm

CREPELLO wrote:Although butterfly bars are great, bikes with drop bars are often set up too low for the touring cyclist, with little difference to that of the sports bike setup. The drops should be set up high, perhaps with a shorter stem, to take the weight of the bars. It's not the bars that make or break a back, but their position.


How many more times do we have to say it before the bike shops and their customers get the message - it's not the drops but the height. Please someone get the bike shops* to stop trying to splurge their racing-image-smarty pants-stuff all over decent touring bikes. And there's no excuse - an uncut steerer tube is very high!

(Edited) *Actually manufacturer - I defer to Colin on this!
Last edited by horizon on Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby 531colin » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:19 pm

horizon wrote:
CREPELLO wrote:Although butterfly bars are great, bikes with drop bars are often set up too low for the touring cyclist, with little difference to that of the sports bike setup. The drops should be set up high, perhaps with a shorter stem, to take the weight of the bars. It's not the bars that make or break a back, but their position.


How many more times do we have to say it before the bike shops and their customers get the message - it's not the drops but the height. Please someone get the bike shops to stop trying to splurge their racing-image-smarty pants-stuff all over decent touring bikes. And there's no excuse - an uncut steerer tube is very high!


I dont know about all the brands, but Dawes are supplied (boxed, from the far east) with the steerer already cut - too short. On some of the bikes they fit an ahed stem which runs on a sleeve, so you can raise/ lower the stem without shuffling spacers. Not a bad idea, until you see the price, which is so high that if somebody wants a different reach stem you immediately go back to a conventional ahed stem.
Blame the bike "designers" you know, those people who specify brake set-ups which dont work, and all those other good things. The retailers are victims, just as much as the end users - its the retailers who sort out all the complaints!
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby horizon » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:57 pm

Point taken Colin. I did ask a couple of retailers at what point the tube was cut but got rather confusing answers - one said that the cut was an acceptable average and carried out by the manufacturer. I do like Aheadset (threadless) stems (for all the usual reasons) but their disadvantage is less flexibility in changing height. On the "measure twice, cut once" principle, they should be left uncut until delivered to the bike shop. Customers should also be allowed to try the bike out and come back for a later cut when they are happy with it. Both our aheadset bikes have stem raisers, an unnecessary expense. The numerous posts on here attesting to the level of drop bars shows that the message is not getting out and the cycling world is splitting between racing drop users (low) and straight/butterfly bars, when, as everyone knows, drop bars are the comfiest of all for touring and are readily available at the right height with both types of headset/stem.
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby 531colin » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:13 pm

horizon wrote:Point taken Colin. I did ask a couple of retailers at what point the tube was cut but got rather confusing answers - one said that the cut was an acceptable average and carried out by the manufacturer. I do like Aheadset (threadless) stems (for all the usual reasons) but their disadvantage is less flexibility in changing height. On the "measure twice, cut once" principle, they should be left uncut until delivered to the bike shop. Customers should also be allowed to try the bike out and come back for a later cut when they are happy with it. Both our aheadset bikes have stem raisers, an unnecessary expense. The numerous posts on here attesting to the level of drop bars shows that the message is not getting out and the cycling world is splitting between racing drop users (low) and straight/butterfly bars, when, as everyone knows, drop bars are the comfiest of all for touring and are readily available at the right height with both types of headset/stem.


I entirely agree with the "ride it for a bit then come back and we'll cut down the steerer" approach. If you do that, then you get much MORE scope for adjustment with ahed than with quill. However, I dont think the "designers" read this forum!
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby horizon » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:13 pm

531colin wrote:
horizon wrote:Point taken Colin. I did ask a couple of retailers at what point the tube was cut but got rather confusing answers - one said that the cut was an acceptable average and carried out by the manufacturer. I do like Aheadset (threadless) stems (for all the usual reasons) but their disadvantage is less flexibility in changing height. On the "measure twice, cut once" principle, they should be left uncut until delivered to the bike shop. Customers should also be allowed to try the bike out and come back for a later cut when they are happy with it. Both our aheadset bikes have stem raisers, an unnecessary expense. The numerous posts on here attesting to the level of drop bars shows that the message is not getting out and the cycling world is splitting between racing drop users (low) and straight/butterfly bars, when, as everyone knows, drop bars are the comfiest of all for touring and are readily available at the right height with both types of headset/stem.


I entirely agree with the "ride it for a bit then come back and we'll cut down the steerer" approach. If you do that, then you get much MORE scope for adjustment with ahed than with quill. However, I dont think the "designers" read this forum!


That's the irony. With a quill stem you get little adjustment but could change the stem reasonably easily and cheaply (and transfer it to your next bike) while with a threadless head/stem you get loads of adjustability until you cut it - then you are into changing the forks as well. Let the customer decide on the cut!
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby CREPELLO » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:53 pm

531colin wrote:
horizon wrote:
CREPELLO wrote:Although butterfly bars are great, bikes with drop bars are often set up too low for the touring cyclist, with little difference to that of the sports bike setup. The drops should be set up high, perhaps with a shorter stem, to take the weight of the bars. It's not the bars that make or break a back, but their position.


How many more times do we have to say it before the bike shops and their customers get the message - it's not the drops but the height. Please someone get the bike shops to stop trying to splurge their racing-image-smarty pants-stuff all over decent touring bikes. And there's no excuse - an uncut steerer tube is very high!


I dont know about all the brands, but Dawes are supplied (boxed, from the far east) with the steerer already cut - too short. On some of the bikes they fit an ahed stem which runs on a sleeve, so you can raise/ lower the stem without shuffling spacers. Not a bad idea, until you see the price, which is so high that if somebody wants a different reach stem you immediately go back to a conventional ahed stem.
Blame the bike "designers" you know, those people who specify brake set-ups which dont work, and all those other good things. The retailers are victims, just as much as the end users - its the retailers who sort out all the complaints!

In defence of Dawes, I built up a 2009 Galaxy frameset last year and the steerer was of a good length, with 6cm of spacers left on the steerer when I sold it. Too their credit, I think Dawes do actually 'get' the message of what touring cyclist's need, reverting from the trend towards compact frames. The steering tube was a generous 17.5cm as well (57cm frame), enabling a pretty good upright position.
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby 531colin » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:51 pm

CREPELLO wrote:In defence of Dawes, I built up a 2009 Galaxy frameset last year and the steerer was of a good length, with 6cm of spacers left on the steerer when I sold it. Too their credit, I think Dawes do actually 'get' the message of what touring cyclist's need, reverting from the trend towards compact frames. The steering tube was a generous 17.5cm as well (57cm frame), enabling a pretty good upright position.


Going from memory (which is risky!) the adjustable ahed stem which Dawes fit gives 4cm adjustment. If you had 6cm of spacers, Dawes must have supplied an "uncut" fork with your 57cm frame. All the sizes use the same fork, so you got a fork intended for the biggest size - 60 cm I think. When you buy a whole bike, the steerer is cut to a length Dawes deem suitable for that size - basically to fit the headset and 4cm adjustment.
As an aside, Dawes use the same fork on all the sizes, despite the fact that the head angle varies for the different sizes, I think from memory again the difference in head angle between the largest and smallest sizes is one and a half degrees. So somewhere in the middle of the size range the fork offset matches the head angle, but the small bikes have more trail than is ideal, and the large bikes have less trail than is ideal. That's bike "designers" for you! The geometries are all listed on Dawes website.

EDIT just checked the site, its the Ultra Gal. that has the widest range of sizes, with 1.5deg. variation in head angle.
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby boink » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:24 pm

Gosh. turn your back for a minute and theres cut n' paste mania and red type all over the shop. Thanks for the advice on the Kara Kum, Cunobelin. What are you riding Michael R? I could upgrade my old Galaxy to have butterflies I suppose but I'm 46 and haven't had a new bike since I was...well 40, but that was hybrid. Now can we get back on track? Recommendations?
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Re: Touring bike with butterfly bars?

Postby Cunobelin » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:37 pm

Get a Thorn - I have never ever seen a Thorn criticised for the stem being too short!
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