new(ish) Ortliebs

[Sweep]

I gather that pretty recently ortlieb has made a couple of changes to its rear bikepacker pluses.

https://www.ortlieb.com/en/produkt-deta ... 20Panniers

1: an external pocket which is lidded rather than the old rollover external pocket

2: QL2.1 hooks, the ".1" apparently includes a change to the hook reducing inserts which apparently pop in from the side (rather than bottom) and so are supposedly less likely to come out and get lost.

I have had a pair of bikepacker pluses for around 15 years and am generally very happy - they have had a lot of demanding use yet, miraculously, still look like new. But i would potentially be interested in the new versions as :

1: I don't like the external pocket/flap on mine and this once caused me to lose a much valued wind/showerproof top and reflective jacket.

2: like many folk i have been plagued by those **** inserts popping out. Have had no issues at all with my altura klickfix hooks.

So, has anyone got some of these newer panniers and could they comment on the effectiveness of these two changes?

[MartinBrice]

As for the problem with the clips on Ortliebs: you are not alone. Here is a post I made elsewhere. This might solve your problem.

The problem:
Ortlieb panniers come with gurt big hooks and smaller inserts for the hooks, which make the hooks fit snugly on the rails of the racks. But these little inserts are a pain: they can fall out and be lost or twist and get stuck so it's difficult to get them seated correctly. BUT if you remove them entirely, the panniers rattle. (OK, this is not the biggest problem the world faces, hence the title thread.)
The answer:
Put thick plastic tubing on the racks rails so their diameter is the same as the gurt big hooks on the Ortlieb panniers.
The "How to" section:
i bought this on eBay:

Description: Clear PVC Hose Pipe Tubing - Food Grade - Fish Pond Car Aquariums Air Line Tube [10mm ID x 16mm OD (thick wall),2.0 Metre Lengt , Item # 261408670856 Qty: 1 Unit Price: 5.24 GBP
I then cut it into lengths the same as the racks (these are the front racks from Thorn, I've also done it on the Thorn Expedition rear rack and the rear rack (Tortec I think) on the audax bike), then slit it lengthwise and popped it on (this is quite tricky as the piping is quite thick and is tough material). Like this:


Just a few tiny cable ties to hold them in place (not really necessary I suspect but I had 850 cable ties in a plastic container so why not?),
then:


some black spinnaker tape to make it look "proper" and Bob's your uncle.
so now those small tiny little miniature inserts from Ortlieb can go back into the bottom of the panniers and stop falling off/out/slipping sideways as they do.
Was this worth a fiver and an hour or so of fettling? Maybe. Of course I could have just bunged some Araldite on the little inserts so they didn't move, but then they'd be there for ever and one day I might want to remove them.

[matt2matt2002]

Good solution
I did this a few years ago for my Alture rest panniers.
I have Ortlieb on the front, with no problems.

[Sweep]

Thanks for the responses but anyone got any views on/personal experience of that external lidded pocket?

And the supposedly less popoutable hook inserts?

[hamish]

I know I am not responding to your question but have been looking at the panniers too and have an observation that you may find relevant. I have older bikepacker plus panniers. They have been fantastic. One negative point on the new ones is the lack of the top straps that go over the pannier lid. I really like those straps on my version and use them for all kinds of things. I would miss them if I changed to the newer versions.

[Sweep]

Thanks for the reply hamish.
No, not an answer to my two questions, but is on topic.

So can I ask what you use those top straps for?

[hamish]

I use them for carrying things like non cycling shoes (teva type sandals or crocs for example) or sometimes my waterproof top if it is showery and going on and off and on the last trip a rolled up alpkit Gordon lightweight rucksack that I took for day walks, going on the ferry, etc. have also been used for short term transport of baguettes...

You obviously have to make sure you pull them tight to avoid losing stuff but they work well.

[Heltor Chasca]

Decent tutorial.

As an extra observation, I bought a length of black air hose with the same internal diameter as both racks a couple of years back for the same reason. The colour doesn't detract from the whole rig and air hose is pretty rubbery but tough. I guess it has to be for it's designed function. The panniers are quiet now and the racks aren't being eaten by my Ortliebs anymore. I took the inserts off the bags btw.

[Sweep]

Just put some new inserts into my old style ones (i had them hanging around) and sure enough one of the inserts in particular stays on the rack whenever I pull up on the pannier. Suppose I should be grateful that as yet it is not dropping on the floor. Still a pain picking it off the rack and reinserting it every time.

Still bemused by how a german company could design a critical insert which pushes up into a holder which is itself pulled up.

[jacksonz]

Just put some new inserts into my old style ones (i had them hanging around) and sure enough one of the inserts in particular stays on the rack whenever I pull up on the pannier.
Still bemused by how a german company could design a critical insert which pushes up into a holder which is itself pulled up.

Well, if the inserts are stuck on the rack tubing then the inserts are too small, you need a bigger size insert. I think there are 3-4 different sizes available. Even so, the inserts are stuck in quite well if they are round the right way. There are tabs on the inserts on one side only. These tabs have to go into a groove on the outer inside part of the hook. If the tabs are not seated correctly they will always fall out! You can push them in from the side, from the bottom whatever.....

I never have had one problem with Ortlieb panniers or inserts. Personally I think the design is fantastic!

I have only ever used "Classics". I don't want pockets, I even remove the Ortlieb inner pockets!

[Heltor Chasca]

Fair comment jacksonz. I never had a problem with the inserts falling out/getting stuck. My problem was they were too hard and ate away at my racks.

[jacksonz]

Fair comment jacksonz. I never had a problem with the inserts falling out/getting stuck. My problem was they were too hard and ate away at my racks.

Yes, that's right. My Blackburn alloy racks were worn away! Tubus steel seems to be the answer. Maybe also getting the bags positioned exactly right on the rack.

[andymiller]

Just put some new inserts into my old style ones (i had them hanging around) and sure enough one of the inserts in particular stays on the rack whenever I pull up on the pannier.
Still bemused by how a german company could design a critical insert which pushes up into a holder which is itself pulled up.

Well, if the inserts are stuck on the rack tubing then the inserts are too small, you need a bigger size insert. I think there are 3-4 different sizes available. Even so, the inserts are stuck in quite well if they are round the right way. There are tabs on the inserts on one side only. These tabs have to go into a groove on the outer inside part of the hook. If the tabs are not seated correctly they will always fall out! You can push them in from the side, from the bottom whatever.....

I never have had one problem with Ortlieb panniers or inserts. Personally I think the design is fantastic!

The inserts that don't stay inserted is a common, and well-known issue. In defence of German companies, both Vaude and Rixen Kaul have engineered inserts that stay where they should.

The Ortlieb design is probably the neatest solution if you need to use the panniers with more than one rack and need to adjust the spacing between clips quickly and without tools, but if you don't need that then personally I'd simply take them off and replace with Rixen Kaul - either the type used by Altura or the VarioFix (an elegant solution to the clips problem).

[jacksonz]

If the product is used to specification there is no problem.

[andymiller]

If the product is used to specification there is no problem.

Yeah right.