Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
beardy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by beardy »

When somebody asks for recommendations, then that is what they get. A broad range gives more options than just a few well focused ones.
The OP then does what they want with the recommendations that they receive. If they dont fancy 36 spoke 105 Open Pros that is no skin off my nose. Same goes if they dont want a dynamohub on their bike. Too often though people just leap in to the "obvious" and then later realise that something else may have suited them better.

I am also reading other peoples' recommendations as they may well offer a better option even for me than my own.

My own credit card touring and Audax is done with either 105 or Tiagra and Open Pro, Open Sport or Chrina. I see such wheels riding alongside ones much more expensive and the riders are not suffering from it.
pwa
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by pwa »

mnichols wrote:I was going to use Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons, although on a recent tour where my friends were on 4 seasons, I had far fewer punctures than them with Grand Prix 4sii

anyone found anything better than the above, and views on whether the 4s is actually better than the 4 seasons

I was on 28mm, they were on 25mm


Of the Conti range, I've only used the GP4 Seasons in recent years, but for audax type cycling I cannot see why anyone would need to forsake the extra protection of the 4 Season version, given that it is already so light, fast and supple.
mnichols
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by mnichols »

My current wheels are hand built on Ultegra hubs, I forget the rims as I type, but have been told that they are heavy due to the spokes rather than the rims. They are heavy and springy and therefore lose a bit of power. Also I don't need 32 spokes. I only weight 75kilos when I'm touring and carry one change of clothes. When I refer to heavy this is more to do with feel rather than actual weight. On a recent tour I swapped the hand-built wheels for Mavic Kysrium Elites from my carbon bike and this made an 'ell of difference. It flew up the hills - and this was on 2500 mile ride with 100k of climbing.

The Mavics are back on the racer, and now I want something similar, for the Enigma (bought frame only and built up a component at a time - so no wheels)

At the moment, I'm probably going to go with Ultegra 6800 wheelset which I can get for £201 = seems like a bargain

After 3 punctures today in my GP4s, I think I'll go back to GP 4 seasons.
pwa
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by pwa »

mnichols wrote:My current wheels are hand built on Ultegra hubs, I forget the rims as I type, but have been told that they are heavy due to the spokes rather than the rims. They are heavy and springy and therefore lose a bit of power. Also I don't need 32 spokes. I only weight 75kilos when I'm touring and carry one change of clothes. When I refer to heavy this is more to do with feel rather than actual weight. On a recent tour I swapped the hand-built wheels for Mavic Kysrium Elites from my carbon bike and this made an 'ell of difference. It flew up the hills - and this was on 2500 mile ride with 100k of climbing.

The Mavics are back on the racer, and now I want something similar, for the Enigma (bought frame only and built up a component at a time - so no wheels)

At the moment, I'm probably going to go with Ultegra 6800 wheelset which I can get for £201 = seems like a bargain

After 3 punctures today in my GP4s, I think I'll go back to GP 4 seasons.


Sounds like you have pretty much sorted what you need. But you raise a question that has always interested me. Do some wheels deflect vertically more than others. Is this all down to rim design (deep = stiff; shallow= flexy)? And how does this affect efficiency and comfort? Anybody know?

Assuming your choice of wheel will be vertically stiff and possibly tending towards a harsh ride, the GP4 Seasons are good at absorbing road chatter and giving a smoother ride. So that might be a good combination.
mnichols
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by mnichols »

My experience with the hand built wheels is that the spokes aren't tensioned as tight, which means that they absorb more, are more comfortable and more suitable to carry a load. The spokes are also less likely to break (IMHO), but they feel sluggish

My experience with the mavics is that the spokes are really tight, transfer power really effectively, and feel really fast, but the spokes are more likely to break and not designed to carry a load. Comfort is not a problem when paired with 28mm tyres

I have Ultegra hubs on the hand built wheels and these roll brilliantly,hence why I'm considering the Ultegra Wheels, at £200 they seem a bargain

The Mavics are great, but already have a pair, and the Ultegra is £300 cheaper
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cycleruk
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by cycleruk »

mnichols wrote: I have Ultegra hubs on the hand built wheels and these roll brilliantly,hence why I'm considering the Ultegra Wheels, at £200 they seem a bargain
The Mavics are great, but already have a pair, and the Ultegra is £300 cheaper


Just a personnel concern with the the Ultegra 6800 wheels is the report of them having shallow rims.
http://road.cc/content/review/126799-sh ... gra-wheels
This makes it hard to fit tyres, not a problem for some, but I struggle with my hands being slightly arthritic now.
How are these regarding the spoke replacements that you where asking about?

I really like my Krysiums and have looked for a cheaper replacement if they ever have to be replaced. :(
I have considered the RS80/24 (carbon composites) but some reports said that they can flex?
I also would look at Campag' Zondas and they are available in either Shimano or Campag' cassette versions.

I currently run Campag' Scirrocos as an alternative to the Ksyriums but they are as heavy as my Open Pro's.
The only thing I don't like about my Ksyriums is the very noisy freehub clutch. :roll:

The Ksysriums came on a 1 year old (second hand half price) Enigma Eclipse in 2009 and have been virtually bombproof. I decided in the end to sell the frame, as it was fractionally a bit small for me, and swapped all the parts onto a Carbon frame bike.
So still using the Kysriums but run the Scirrocos if it's very windy.
Enigma Eclipse.jpg
You'll never know if you don't try it.
Vorpal
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by Vorpal »

mnichols wrote:I was going to use Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons, although on a recent tour where my friends were on 4 seasons, I had far fewer punctures than them with Grand Prix 4sii

anyone found anything better than the above, and views on whether the 4s is actually better than the 4 seasons

I was on 28mm, they were on 25mm


I've tried various other of the tyres in the GP range (most recently the 4000s, which the tech in the lbs said were the closest compound to 4 seasons), and I think the 4 seasons are more puncture resistant, and also give better traction in adverse conditions, especially wet or frost.

That said, the size makes a difference, too. I've generally had fewer punctures on 28 mm tyres than skinnier ones; even 25s, and I would take 28s, rather then 25s, even for a credit card tour.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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mnichols
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by mnichols »

I've order the Ultegra 6800 wheels - managed to get them for under £200 with free delivery and free returns

and the Grand Prix 4 seasons at £27

ordered three spare spokes, although I'm intrigued by the emergency spoke replacement - seems like a good idea if a spoke goes on the rear cassette side and you haven' got the tools - also only need to carry one per group of people, not three spokes each, and I don't have to remember tp carry the right the spoke for the wheel

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/fiber-fix-em ... 9a49a10ebc

Has anyone used one on the road side? Do they work? would they work on all wheels? Ambrosia, Ultegra, Mavic?
PH
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by PH »

mnichols wrote:http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/fiber-fix-em ... 9a49a10ebc

Has anyone used one on the road side? Do they work? would they work on all wheels? Ambrosia, Ultegra, Mavic?

They were reviewed in Cycle some time ago, by CJ I think, the conclusion was that you couldn't get enough tension to be worthwhile.
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531colin
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by 531colin »

The best book about bicycle wheels was written by Brandt, and first published in 1981, long before to-day's deep section rims.
Brandt calculated that a radial load of 50Kg at the axle of a 36 spoke wheel would produce a maximum radial deflection of the rim of 0.15mm......you won't detect that by riding a bicycle fitted with pneumatic tyres.
When you put a steel wire under tension the wire stretches. Unless the load on the wire is approaching a load which will cause the wire to break by plastic deformation, adding (say) 1Kg to the load on the wire will produce the same amount of stretch regardless of the starting tension. In other words the relationship between load and stretch (Young's modulus)is linear, and unless spokes are under no tension at all or are failing plastically, a "slack" wheel will respond in exactly the same way to a load as a similar "tight" wheel. Properly tensioned conventional wheels have an average spoke tension in the region of 100Kg per spoke. With a 32 spoke wheel, pedaling torque increases the tension on 16 spokes, you won't be able to feel the spokes stretch as a result of the torque you apply by pedaling. The additional pedaling load is small compared with the total static tension of approximately 1600Kg on 16 spokes.
Spokes fail at the elbow by fatigue caused by the cyclical un-loading of spokes at the bottom of the wheel. When one spoke fails in a wheel, other spokes are likely to be going the same way......how soon they fail is determined by their fatigue status, not by replacing a failed spoke, unless you also stress-relieve all the spokes when you replace a broken spoke, when you may extend the life of the other spokes.
If you speak to somebody who builds a reasonable range and number of wheels, they can tell you some things about wheels.
1) a dished rear wheel is much less stiff laterally in one direction than it is in the other direction, due to the bracing angle of the spokes.
2) a wheel with a big, stiff rim is much stiffer laterally than a similar wheel with a narrow, shallow rim
3) wheels with reduced spoke count work by having a big stiff rim (which is either heavy or thin walled) and high individual spoke tension
When you push the pedal down, you want to drive the bike forwards, but there is always a tendency for the bottom bracket to flex sideways, which is resisted by the lateral stiffness of the frame and wheel. A stiff bike accelerates immediately you push the pedal.
Ventura
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by Ventura »

I have had a pair of Open Pro rims with 105 hubs on my Trek Pilot for the past 6 years, they were built by my local bike shop - not a single problem over several thousand miles and I'm 75 kilo's. Just bought a second pair of Open Pro's with 105 hubs from Paul Hewitt for another of my bikes, really good prices and service.

Martin
Ventura
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by Ventura »

I broke a spoke on the first day of a ride from the San Francisco area to Yosemite, it was a Sunday and of course the LBS was closed. One of the other riders came to the rescue and fitted something similar to the SJS spoke repair kit. I managed to complete the rest of the ride over the next two days without any problems including about 10,000 feet of climbing.

martin
mnichols
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by mnichols »

The Ultegra wheels have arrived (ooh shiney) and they have big stickers on them saying not to use tyre levers

I only use them when I need to, but sometimes you have to

I think this is because they are tubeless ready (assumption)

Should I be concerned if I'm using tubes?
mnichols
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by mnichols »

First ride on them today. Very impressed they roll beautifully
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