Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
mnichols
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Joined: 22 Apr 2013, 4:29pm

Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by mnichols »

HI, I'm looking for a new set of wheels for my Enigma Etape. They should be for fast and light for credit card touring on good roads. I've already got some handmade 32 spoke, heavy as lead wheels for fully loaded touring, so I'm looking for something that's fast and light for the mountains and long distance and multi-day tours and audaxes

Other that fast and light, other criteria are:

- To be able to repair a spoke by the roadside should the need arise - let's not get into the whys and wherefores of that one and just say that I do.
- So availability of single spokes is also required - not a full set
- Take between 23mm and 28mm tyres, but mostly 25mm
- Cost less than £500
- Parts available around the world if I get stuck on tour

I weigh between 75kg and 80kg depending on who's asking. I do up to 200 miles per day, and tour for multiple weeks. I like quiet walks in the country and cosy nights in by the fire, would like to meet nice set of wheels for touring... maybe more, good sense of humour, no smoker preferred
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by pwa »

To be honest I would suggest more or less what you have got already. I'd avoid superlight rims for any cycling on potentially imperfect country lane surfaces. I'd avoid wheels with too few spokes. I'd stick with 105 / Ultegra hubs. Maybe you could save weight by having lighter spokes. Paul Hewitt will make you something for not much over £300, and he will probably be happy to chat about your requirements over the phone. I've long preferred Open Pro rims, but next time I'll look for something a bit stronger and probably heavier. Bent rims are the slowest.
beardy
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by beardy »

I too would be starting with 105 and Open Pro assuming you want to keep spending on the same level as the Etape.
Though Tiagra with Chrinas would not make a lot of difference.

I would also have a think about fitting an SP dynamohub on the front instead of a normal hub.

Then I would pay much more attention to the choice of tyres, which tend to make more of a difference than rims do.

The Open Pro are a bit costly and short lived. The CD versions are longer lived but even more costly.
As you already have a heavier set of wheels for general use, you can "afford" to have a pair of such luxury rims saved for best.
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foxyrider
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by foxyrider »

I'd recommend the Kinesis CX wheels - light, not too expensive and pretty bullet proof. I've been running a pair of the V3 28 spoke jobs for commuting, shopping and fully loaded touring across all surfaces for 18 months - they haven't seen a spoke key in that time and are still straight as a die. My mate has had his V2's for 4 years - same story.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Rabbit
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by Rabbit »

I had a set of Harry Rowland wheels made up last year for a tour - and he was excellent to deal with and the wheels have been superb. Harry seems happy to chat on the phone for ages about what you need and answers emails quickly. He's a pretty well known name and has been making wheels for years. I think he charged me about £220 for some Mavic A719 rims with LX hubs and 36 DT swiss spokes. Been using them for 6 months and still absolutely true despite a few bangs and pot holes. You will probably want something lighter I guess...
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cycleruk
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by cycleruk »

Referring to being able to replace a spoke at the side of the road, then that knocks out any fancy lightweight wheel.
Spokes for special wheels will not be available at a normal bike shop. Although, I suppose, you could buy a few in advance if you wanted.
I personally go for Open Pro's but there are other rims available. Spa won't (or didn't) recommend the Open Pro's as they say that they can deform at the spoke holes. I've not had that problem on my rims but I have had them wear out. Having said that I have a pair of similar Mavics that are now 20 years old.
One of my Open Pro front wheel is 4 ozs (~100 gms) heavier than a front lightweight Ksyrium. So back + front will be 8 ozs heavier in comparison. The Open Pro front including lightweight tyre ~ 2lb.8ozs and the Ksyrium ~ 2lb.4ozs.
I found that a good weight saving was in the selection of tyres. Especially if you get a "folding" tyre but then the cost will also go up. I use Continentals which also have good puncture protection. (Some web-shops quote tyre weight for comparison.)
At my current weight (78kgs) I have no problems with either 36 or 32 spoke wheels and I have a selection of both.
As an aside, my Kysrium wheels are a joy to ride as they are light and stiff. Being stiff helps to put through the power :roll: :lol: but you do notice the ride is also stiffer. Another draw back is that they have bladed spokes and are easily affected by side winds so I only use them for best.
You'll never know if you don't try it.
andymiller
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by andymiller »

mnichols wrote:- To be able to repair a spoke by the roadside should the need arise - let's not get into the whys and wherefores of that one and just say that I do.
- So availability of single spokes is also required - not a full set
- Take between 23mm and 28mm tyres, but mostly 25mm
- Cost less than £500
- Parts available around the world if I get stuck on tour


If you want to be able to replace spokes at the roadside then you need to carry the tools and be able to use them (although possibly you could use your chain as a chain whip). There's nothing particular to specific makes of rim — they all come apart in more or less the same way with the major issue being getting the rear sprocket off. I'm sure there will be plenty of helpful how-tos on the internet - try youtube.

I don't know how heavy your wheels are but I suspect that you're not going to make significant weight savings without sacrificing durability.

Spokes are basically pretty standard. If you're worried about availability of spokes then the best thing is to carry a couple of spares with you. Some people keep them inside the seat tube. If the hub or rim fails you'll need to get a new wheel built with whatever is available locally. Sealed bearings are very difficult to change without a bearing press (although you'd probably be extremely unlucky to ever need to change them on the road). The loose bearings used by Shimano are a lot easier to replace - should you ever need to.

Somewhere on the Sheldon Brown website there used to be a table of ideal rim sizes for particular widths of tyres. Unfortunately I can't find it. IIRC you need a 13mm internal width for the sizes you're interested in.
PH
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by PH »

Rabbit wrote:I had a set of Harry Rowland wheels made up last year for a tour - and he was excellent to deal with and the wheels have been superb. Harry seems happy to chat on the phone for ages about what you need and answers emails quickly.

He is like that, until there's a problem, then he really doesn't want to know, tells you it was a poor choice of components though didn't mention it when he took the money.
PH
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by PH »

beardy wrote:Then I would pay much more attention to the choice of tyres, which tend to make more of a difference than rims do.

I think that's right, unless your current handbuilts are cheap and nasty I suspect any gains are going to be marginal. I notice Steve Abraham converted to tubeless on his mileage attempt, seems to have liked them, so there's a bit to be gained there (If there is a problem you can still stick a tube in) Slightly wider rims that give a different profile are becoming popular, I haven't looked that closely so don't know if it's fashion or the theory holds up. If you stick with tubes you could go for really light ones and a quality pump and accurate pressure gauge, always having that right is going to make a difference.
Then the tyres, high mileage on good tyres gets expensive, but if money were no object I'l like to try these
https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/compo ... yuse-pass/

After that, just talk to a decent wheelbuilder and if they're not asking about your weight and usage, don't use them.
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hondated
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by hondated »

Rabbit wrote:I had a set of Harry Rowland wheels made up last year for a tour - and he was excellent to deal with and the wheels have been superb. Harry seems happy to chat on the phone for ages about what you need and answers emails quickly. He's a pretty well known name and has been making wheels for years. I think he charged me about £220 for some Mavic A719 rims with LX hubs and 36 DT swiss spokes. Been using them for 6 months and still absolutely true despite a few bangs and pot holes. You will probably want something lighter I guess...

+1
mnichols
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by mnichols »

I was going to use Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons, although on a recent tour where my friends were on 4 seasons, I had far fewer punctures than them with Grand Prix 4sii

anyone found anything better than the above, and views on whether the 4s is actually better than the 4 seasons

I was on 28mm, they were on 25mm
FarOeuf
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by FarOeuf »

£500? Wheel truing stand £80 (Minoura is fine), rim for £30 (£60 for 2), spokes £40, wheel building book £10 (eg, Muson).

If you want a wheel that's repairable at the side of the road, then you're going to need to now how to do that repair. If you just fit a new spoke and tighten it up, then there's a reasonably good chance it (or another spoke) will snap a few miles up the road.

"I've already got some handmade 32 spoke, heavy as lead wheels for fully loaded touring...." and "...I'm looking for something that's fast and light for the mountains and long distance and multi-day tours and audaxes"

can you really not feel the irony? skimping on spokes doesn't make your wheels fast, or light. what rims are on your 'heavy as lead' wheels?
Bonefishblues
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by Bonefishblues »

PH wrote:
Rabbit wrote:I had a set of Harry Rowland wheels made up last year for a tour - and he was excellent to deal with and the wheels have been superb. Harry seems happy to chat on the phone for ages about what you need and answers emails quickly.

He is like that, until there's a problem, then he really doesn't want to know, tells you it was a poor choice of components though didn't mention it when he took the money.

That's an interesting perspective as he a seems very forthright on component Pros and Cons on his rather old-fashioned website.
nmnm
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by nmnm »

Didn't the etape come with a nice set of light wheels? Imho, posting this question here is getting you a lot of answers that bias towards the trad touring end of the viewpoints, with deviations into moneysaving options that surely aren't an issue for someone asking about £500 wheels for a £1000 frameset. Anyway, that's maybe just me :? . I'd email the Enigma guy for a recommended wheelset or post on a board where people are talking more about lightweight £500 wheelsets for general use (not "touring and expedition"). And that flexible wire roadside spoke repair kit is worth a look maybe. Actually, this board is maybe better for that roadside spoke repair point, to be fair.
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cycleruk
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Re: Wheel recommendations for credit card touring

Post by cycleruk »

nmnm wrote:Didn't the etape come with a nice set of light wheels? Imho, posting this question here is getting you a lot of answers that bias towards the trad touring end of the viewpoints, with deviations into moneysaving options that surely aren't an issue for someone asking about £500 wheels for a £1000 frameset. Anyway, that's maybe just me :? . I'd email the Enigma guy for a recommended wheelset or post on a board where people are talking more about lightweight £500 wheelsets for general use (not "touring and expedition"). And that flexible wire roadside spoke repair kit is worth a look maybe. Actually, this board is maybe better for that roadside spoke repair point, to be fair.


If you really read the criteria of the O.P. then "traditional" wheels will always come out tops.

"looking for something that's fast and light for the mountains and long distance and multi-day tours and audaxes"
So availability of single spokes is also required - not a full set
- Take between 23mm and 28mm tyres, but mostly 25mm
- Cost less than £500
- Parts available around the world if I get stuck on tour


Where are you going to get replacement parts "available around the world"?
And some fancy wheels will not be take your Flexible wire spoke" because of the spoke design system.
It would be helpful if we knew what wheels the O.P already has including their weight.
You'll never know if you don't try it.
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