Critiques of routes for touring

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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honesty
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by honesty »

Unfortunately I've only ever driven around Oxford so can't comment on the smaller roads out.
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Annoying Twit wrote:Could someone (e.g. 'honesty') please advise about the suitability of leaving Oxford (heading towards Leicester) on the B4150, over the A40 and north towards Woodeaton and Islip?


The B4150 proper - i.e. Marston Road - is an averagely busy city road. It's not my idea of a good time but it's perfectly cycleable - I do it every month or two and haven't died yet!

From the A40 to Bletchingdon is rat-run central. It's really, really lousy at rush-hour - a constant stream of traffic on a busy road. At other times of day I'd personally be ok with the road through Woodeaton, but uncomfortable on the B4027... but I have a lower tolerance for traffic than many.

As far as the canal towpath goes, you take it from the start of the canal as far as Aristotle Lane in North Oxford, then divert onto NCN 5 which will take you on back streets and a roadside path until returning to the towpath. Eventually you come back onto the A44 cyclepath after having avoided the unpleasant trunk road roundabouts.

My personal suggestion would be that you faithfully follow NCN 5 from Oxford through Woodstock. Then when it turns due west, go east towards the Cherwell valley and Upper Heyford. You can then rejoin your planned itinerary. There's a muddy bit out of Woodstock but otherwise it's a good route.

I'd also recommend that you use a proper bike-friendly route-planning site rather than Google but I may be biased. ;)
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

Thanks Richard. I wasn't sure if I could have faith in the 'cycle friendly' lines on google maps. They go through the massive roundabout at the north of Oxford (A34, A44), but on streetview I couldn't see a safe way through for a cycle. The NCR5 route takes me on the A44, but streetview clearly shows me the cyclepath. here is a cyclist using it.

Applying your advice, the route currently looks like this: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Oxfor ... 484838!3e1

I'm now going to try and make a route using cycle.travel. ... The first try / no modifications route it gave me was similar to the one I worked out to include your NCR5 recommendation, except for the getting out of Oxford bit. It takes me to Kidlington via Oxford Road, and then skirting around the southern outskirts of Kidlington on the Bicester Road. It's certainly an order of magnitude better than google maps for cyclists as google maps magnetically takes me to dangerous A-roads all the time, with modification of the maps frequently snapping safer routes to unsafe ones. Once the automatic cycle.travel route gets to Kirklington, it's then pretty much identical to the route I spent a long time working out. And the Bicester road recommendation looks a good one. If cycle.travel allows a larger number of via points than google maps that would help a LOT. I live in fear of the 'This route cannot be modified any further' message. EDIT: The Bicester Road looks a bit big, but there is a paved cyclepath. The road out of Oxford is the A4165, and there isn't a cyclepath. There is a bus lane. I would be travelling on it a bit before 9am on a Saturday. There may be many buses. NCR5 as you recommend seems better.

I've been looking into the cycle.travel forums to look for things such as export modes, and note that you are a contributor there whose contributions indicate a very important role in that site! :) As navigation is my biggest issue for long distance cycling, I would like to learn more about maps and options. I'd like to have my phone attached to the handlebars showing a live map, but don't know how to get maps from other formats into google maps and navigate from it. This should be possible, but I need to learn more about the systems to make it work. More googling now ensues. My current strategy for maps not in google maps format (e.g. GPX of the Audax I'm doing next Sunday weather permitting) is to just simply recreate the route in google maps, and then email the weblink to myself which I can then pick up on the phone. There must be an easier way. I don't think I will ever completely ignore google maps as I use streetview a lot when planning.
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

In hindsight, my day trips aren't really "touring" and I probably should have posted elsewhere.

Today was going to be my day for a trip from Oxford. But, a friend has said that he'll come with me if I stay closer, so I'm doing a 100km ride in North Leicestershire with some meaty hills to challenge single-speeded moi. Hopefully Oxford will fit in sometime in the nearish future. Then Gloucester --> Leicester, then Leicester-->Lincoln return.
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

Trivial point: Trip to/from Oxford (depending on wind direction) is not tentative for the 2nd or 3rd of April. Looking forward to it.
ossie
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by ossie »

beardy wrote:Try using this to plot your routes, it always gives amazingly good routes but possibly a bit too reticent to use main roads, you can tweek it when a bit of main road would make the rest of the route better.
http://cycle.travel/map



Agree,I planned a route from Poole in Dorset to Harwich (230 miles) then around the Netherlands, Germany and France...(1300 miles) it's probably the best route planner ive ever used. The main roads it dumped me on had cycle paths.

It might not have been the quickest of routes but it was the safest.
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

I did the Oxford --> Leicester ride today. Unfortunately, I went off-course several times. Ending up in Bletchingdon (! - way off course, meaning I must have been on the whole wrong canal) at one point. That wasn't so bad, as helpful people even drew me a very good map which helped a lot. Other errors were more serious. E.g. ending up riding several miles on the A5 when I should have just done a short dogleg on that road. No harm done, but I wasn't happy about that. Other errors were comical. Google maps: A raised bit of earth in a farmer's field is not a road!

I spent longer on the Rivers and Canals north of Oxford (and in Oxford) than I planned. This meant that I got a very slow start. The towpaths typically weren't paved, or the paving was old and in poor shape. I often felt that I really needed something with knobbly tyres for those bits.

NB: I realise that this isn't really 'Touring and Expedition' as it's a single day trip. However, I'm building up. And maybe sometime in the future I can fit in an overnight trip out -> sleep -> back again.

I think I want to completely change the way I plan trips, and do the whole trips going from village to village, wherever possible on roads that mostly go straight from one village to another. Rather than complicated routes on roads that are often not even labelled. I suppose I could rely on electronic navigation more. It's really helpful when you're going from Xby to Yby, when you are in Xby and find "Yby road", then half way along it changes to "Xby road" to tell you you're getting close, then you arrive in Yby. I really like it when that happens.

The trips take me a long time. Rough ground (e.g. farmer's field, unpaved or poorly maintained towpaths) slow me down. Having to worry about navigation, stop and check maps, ask people (note: I'm very thankful for the help, of which I received loads.) I can't do anything like the average speed I could if I rode over nicely paved roads that I know like the back of my hand.

On the way back I was supposed to go through Ashby Magna, Willoughby, and then to Countesthorpe. However, when I saw a sign saying "Countesthorpe 4miles" when I was still 2 miles away from Ashby Magna was too tempting to resist. That's the advantage of a more or less straight route though. Cheating doesn't make a huge difference overall.

I'm going to see if I can replan what I plan to be my next trip, Gloucester --> Leicester, to make it more 'village hopping'.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Commenting only on the bit I know, from Stratford to Gloucester:

From Wellesbourne south as far as Honeybourne it looks pretty good to me, but from there I would probably not go through Evesham unless you have a particular reason to. Nothing particularly wrong with the route, I just wasn't greatly impressed by the town when I've been there! Instead I'd head further south through Wickhamford and Childswickham before cutting west through Hinton on the Green. However, going via Evesham is probably going to be a bit flatter.

From Tewkesbury to Gloucester your route is ok as far as the airport. From there into Gloucester is a bit urban-ish but still ok. However, I'd take a route on the other side of the Severn, crossing on the A438 then heading south through Forthampton, Chaceley, Ashleworth (the tythe barn and quay, with pub, are worth taking a look at), and Maisemore. From the end of Maisemore pick up the the cycle path on the other side of the road immediately after the bridge and follow it via Alney Island (Britain's largest intra-riverine island, it's claimed) into the city. This is hilly at its southern end but the lanes are quite, in good condition and the views in all directions are just beautiful. You can see the Malverns, the Black Mountains and across the Severn plain to the Cotswolds. The view from the hill between Hartpury and Maisemore, on a good day, is one of my favourite things in all the world. And when you're in Gloucester, why not visit Peppers Cafe on Bull Lane, just off Westgate, near the cathedral? Not only is the food good and not too pricey, but it's run by a cyclist; a former RAAM entrant, no less!
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

Thanks BMLBuzz, I'll take note of your advice when I replan the route.

I do take note of the advice in this thread. E.g. my final Oxford route followed Richard Fairhurst's suggestions even more than the routes I listed in this thread. Unfortunately my poor navigation meant that my actual route was different from the planned one.
andymiller
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by andymiller »

I'm sorry you had a bad time.

It's difficult to know how much was down to the route you planned and how much was due to deviating from it.

The first thing is though that Google Maps really aren't the best maps to use for route planning. I'm guessing that the raised bit across a farmer's field might have been a bridleway (or you were lost) - if you use Richard's cycle.travel it should tell you if a section of road is surfaced or not. Also Ordnance Surveys' 1:50,000 scale maps are an excellent resource and give you lots of information about the type of route. These are viewable online, but the buying a few paper ones would be a good investment. You can always go to google streetview if you need to.

Have you thought about maybe following some pre-prepared routes? cycle.travel has guides to different bits of the National Cycle Network. Or you could get a book of circular day rides in Oxfordshire (I'm assuming that's where you live). This Phillips guide is now a bit long in the tooth, but should still be useful and at £1.81 from Amazon is an absolute steal:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-Cycle-T ... 0540081957

I'd be wary of relying on electronic navigation - a gps can just as easily take you up an unrideable track. What I would suggest is using a gps (or smartphone) to tell you where you are —as opposed to telling you where to go. If you prepare your route as a gpx track you can then load it onto your gps or smartphone and follow it. It won't stop you taking wrong turns, but it will tell you that wean you're deviating from your planned route and enable you to find your way back to it.
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

I wouldn't say that I had a bad time. I enjoyed being out in the country, seeing various wildlife, seeing historical buildings (e.g. the Priory at Canons Ashby - though I would have enjoyed it more if I could have gone inside - the advantage of actual touring where you don't need to make so much distance in one day.), and the achievement of the ride. I would have enjoyed it more had navigation been accomplished better. But, I enjoyed the day. I just want to do it even better next time.

Thanks for the advice about the prepared routes. I'll check them out. I've already started looking at a Gloucester route replan, but there seems to be a bit of a shortage of small roads northeast of Gloucester.

Today I frequently used my phone to tell me where I was. Until the battery ran out - near the end of the journey. Next time I want to have more than one charged battery. A cycle computer would help as if I need to 'turn right' with no street name after 5.2km, then I need to know when I"ve travelled 5.2km.

BTW: I live in Leicester. I typically either take a train out from, or a train back to, Leicester. I can very easily plan long routes around Leicester itself, but I find it more interesting to go further afield. Putting the train into the equation allows going further than an out and back trip. I have cycled around Leicester and to/from towns/cities around Leicester quite a bit. So, some of the novelty has worn off.

IMHO using Google Maps to repair navigation errors is a little bit dangerous. As even if a cycle route is selected, it seems to insist that you find the nearest massive and busy A-road, and ride along it.

EDIT: If it's a good idea, I can solve the Stratford-upon-Avon --> Leicester leg by simply heading east from S-U-A onto the Fosse Way, and then following the Fosse Way all the way home. Good Roman road. Straight as a die and takes me nearly home from all the way out there.
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

I think it's too early for people to give me Gloucester --> Leicester advice as my route is changing too much.

However, here are the routes I have so far:

Gloucester to Stratford-Upon-Avon via the Cotswolds: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Glouc ... .19173!3e1 This has one massive hill up to Cleeve Hill in the Cotswolds, but is otherwise reasonably flat. I've never been to the Cotswolds. This is different from my previous route, and goes nowhere near Tewkesbury. EDIT: Changed. This now has more hills, but more Cotswold.

Here's an 'other side of the Severn' route inspired by BMLBuzz's advice. It was quite hard to avoid A-roads, and there are some bits that are basically diversions to avoid them. Refinement is necessary. I don't know which of these two routes will be the one I do. There does seem to be more hills on this route. It's also ten miles longer. This may not be a bad thing as originally the Gloucester trip was going to be the first time I did 100 miles in one day, but the trip got shorter. This route would make it longer again.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Glouc ... .19173!3e1 EDIT: This isn't that hilly. I just noticed the small range between the highest and lowest elevation reached on this route.

From Stratford-Upon-Avon to Leicester, I was thinking of using the Fosse way for easy navigation. There is a big hill, Friz Hill, between S-U-A and the Fosse Way. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Strat ... 484838!3e1

I wouldn't mind hearing bits of information about these areas. But I'm concerned that if people give me specific advice about a route that I'm still working on (e.g. I've sent emails to organisations and tourist information centres asking questions) then there is a risk that the advice might not get used. I don't want to waste anyone's time.
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

Aaaannnnnddddd ... I'm aware that I'm only doing day trips rather than touring, but due to unforseen circumstances (my partner not being 100% and wanting to take it easy tomorrow), I've brought up my Gloucester --> Leicester cycle ride to tomorrow.

Now I have to decide which side of the Severn to cycle on. I must admit, never having seen the Cotswolds I'm tempted to go that way.

This time I plan to write my own directions (which is going to take a long time) instead of just printing out Google Maps. It's going to take a while.

Off to buy chockie biscuits and other fuel.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Bmblbzzz »

One of the great features of cycle.travel, mentioned already, is that once you've planned your route you can download it as a gpx, a routesheet or print it out as a map. I used to use the map option before I (very recently) got a gps and it works very well for up to at least 100km a day.
Annoying Twit
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Re: Critiques of routes for touring

Post by Annoying Twit »

Bmblbzzz wrote:One of the great features of cycle.travel, mentioned already, is that once you've planned your route you can download it as a gpx, a routesheet or print it out as a map. I used to use the map option before I (very recently) got a gps and it works very well for up to at least 100km a day.


Once I reach Long Maston, most of the route home should be a no brainer. There is some complexity getting to The Cotswolds (sorry :) !), and in the Cotswolds the roads aren't labelled on Google Maps. It does look possible for major navigation errors to occur in that part of the journey. I'm cut and pasting images into my directions to get me through. I'll look at cycle.travel and mapmyrun too.

Long Maston to Stratford upon Avon is easy on 'The Greenway'. After Stratford upon Avon, it's about 5-10km east to the Fosse way. Then it's maybe 50km home straight down that road, with Mithaas (http://mithaas.co.uk) in Leicester's Narborough Road waiting for me down the end with extremely delicious savoury spicy treats.
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