touring and flying with hydraulic disc brakes

[pwa]

I've never had a single problem hydraulic brakes, they are a very very simple device, true seals could blow but usually this would not be a catastrophic failure and would be caught with routine Maintenance. Spares could easily be lighter than those require for cable brakes ( seals, a few olives and oil)
While I have heard of hydraulics failing on long descents most of the problems seem to be related to poor equipment choice,don't use tiny light weight aftermarket rotors on touring or heavily loaded bikes, I use Shimano slx brakes on my dummy and have never suffered from fade even loaded up to an estimated 100lbs at speeds of up to 50mph.
Mechanical brakes can also fail, cables can snap etc

While not a road or touring sample very few respondents on this thread had many problems
http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/anyon ... 26367.html

This was extracted from http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/ ... red_308954

Obviously, any sort of fade is highly dangerous. But discs are not the only brake system that will fail with excessive heat. SRAM was able to blow a tire off its rim after five minutes at 550 watts (on a dynamo tester), but saw zero damage to its disc brakes after 12 minutes at 800 watts. In other words, if you’ve never blown a tire off a rim due to heat, you’ll certainly never boil your road discs

Basically I think hydraulic brakes are a lot more reliable than some think.

Not true for a tandem. May be true for a solo bike. High speed descents are not the problem. Slowing down from 50mph to 10mph is fine because you have had a period of non-use and your brakes start cool. The problem comes on long technical descents where repeated hairpins and twisty bends make letting the bike build up speed not an option. My Hope disc brake (with the largest rotor available) cooked on a steep descent in the Brecon Beacons in spite of being alternated with the other two brakes. The Vee brakes were used just as much and were still working when the hydraulic brake had been retired for the day. I have tackled longer descents with more braking in the Alps, but the idea of doing that with hydraulics on a tandem, with no other brakes, would terrify me now. On a solo bike, I don't know.

[m-gineering]

I've never had a single problem hydraulic brakes, they are a very very simple device, true seals could blow but usually this would not be a catastrophic failure and would be caught with routine Maintenance. Spares could easily be lighter than those require for cable brakes ( seals, a few olives and oil)

One of my personal MTB's which only sees light use is currently on it's third set of brakes. The scrap pile is a mixed bag of Hopeless, Hayes, Shimano, Magura...

Good luck carrying seals, most brands expect you to swap the complete unit. And if you need one, you're probably not alone so a spare might be months away. And by the time you've packed the brakefluid and the syringes you're well over the weight and volume of what you need to take for a rimbrake. And manufacturers are hit and miss, One year reliable, next year a total disaster. Or the other way round

Definitely pack spare pads, customer of mine got stuck and had to rent a car to go find MAgura pads in France

If they work hydraulic discs are the best brakes around, but if they don't somewhere in the sticks you've got a bigger problem. And do you really need them on a holiday rig or will they just make you fall off at higher speed?

[FarOeuf]

I had Hope hydraulic discs cook in the Alps, on the long singletrack descents. I'm sure it's nothing Hope specific, but it was pretty scary. I think it's basic physics, a lot of heat must be dissipated yet the calipers are tiny. RIding (fast) with hydraulic discs means you need to manage them, more so than rim brakes. I"m talking about Alps level of descending.

Re blowing tyres off because of hot rims and caliper brakes. I'm considering the case of flying towards a hairpin and crashing because the tyre popped off, but at least you're gripping the rim and slowing down. The disc alternative is that you simply have no brakes left and no way of slowing down, jam your foot on the wheel?

Now I run a v-brake front and cable disc rear. I run a disc only to avoid rebuilding the rear rim so often. I've never had a problem actually stopping with rim brakes.

[TonyR]

I can tell you this if your brakes fail at the wrong time and in the wrong place it may stop you doing anything apart from being put in a box and shoved in the ground.

Or if your front tyre bursts or handlebars fail or hub flange fails or brake cable snaps or ........ If you approach cycling that way you'd never get on.a bike,

[TonyR]

Re blowing tyres off because of hot rims and caliper brakes. I'm considering the case of flying towards a hairpin and crashing because the tyre popped off, but at least you're gripping the rim and slowing down.

Have you ever had a tyre blow off the rim? The one thing you do not want to be doing is braking on that rim. Its tough enough as it is as it has no grip and tramlines like mad on the road surface defects. I've had it happen to me on a short downhill (tyre failure) and it was no fun but fortunately I was on a straight bit of road. Use the brake on the other wheel. You have two of them and whether its hydraulic or cable its unlikely that both will fail at the same time.

[pwa]

Hello,
I am currently in the process of building up a tourer using a croix de fer frame. The man in the bike shop couldnt understand why I wanted canti brakes, and they dont fit on the frame anyway. I guess i can go with cable disc brakes...But do any of you have any thoughts on using hydraulic disc breaks on a tourer.

I understand some of the pro points for using hydraulic brakes but are they really suitable for touring? and furthermore, has anyone had issues flying with them?

To respond the original question, if I were selecting disc brakes for touring I would stick with cables because they are easier to fix, should you need to, and they don't suffer from overheating hydraulic fluid on long, twisty descents. Braking power is not as good as hydraulics, but they should stop you well enough. Remove the disc when transporting it (quick and easy) to avoid bending it, and take spare pads (weigh almost nothing). And on long descents pull over every now and then to admire the view and allow the brakes to cool. Simple. I'd prefer cantis or mini vees, but if I had a frame designed for discs I would go with a cable system.

[Psamathe]

I often look at things in terms of risks vs consequences balanced with benefits.

So, ignoring the benefits, things that are likely to happen but don't really cause much grief then I'm more likely give it a go. But things that can cause lots of grief but are unlikely I'm more likely avoid.

Risks and consequences can maybe be quantified (to a degree). So if you are touring in flat countryside with well equipped bike shops every few miles then the grief from a failure will be trivial. But touring maybe in hilly countryside where bike shops are scarce and ill-equipped then the grief can be greater.

Benefits are harder. I understood that people have been touring on bikes with rim brakes and managing to stop. People say mechanical disks are better so stopping is even better. People say hydraulic disk brakes are even better. So are they needed to be able to stop safely? And does the improved stopping outweigh the potential grief from albeit low risk of failure?

I'm something of a novice and I got a bike with mechanical disks (can't comment on good or bad stopping because I've nothing to compare them with). I'm pretty sure I can apply enough braking to lock the wheel with them. Were I to go touring (future hope) I would consider getting a descent tourer and on my wish list would be rim brakes and I think I'd still be able to stop and, if the worst did happen fixing would not cause grief. When I test rode my bike the disks were fine; but by 1st service one disk was slightly bent and needed straightening.

Ian

[andymiller]

I did once have problems with hydraulic discs as a result of not packing the bike carefully enough so that the joints of the brake came under stress and sprung a leak. So hydraulics aren't idiot proof, and if you do get a problem they are harder harder to fix.

I currently use Avid BB7s with 203mm discs. Which is probably over-kill, but I'm happy.

[reohn2]

I currently use Avid BB7s with 203mm discs. Which is probably over-kill, but I'm happy.

160's are big enough for a solo.
We have 203's on the tandem and it stops PDQ with an all up weight of 180kgs including the bike and day bag.

[molzor]

Well it looks like my post caused a bit of a stir. Shouldve known.

Im not worrying about it by any means, I quite like a risk. The last 3 trips (admittedly in summer) I slept in a hammock, didnt take a tarp or a tent. If it rains one day, deal with it. But no hotels allowed!

Anyway its just that if you are building up a new bike, its good to think. yeah ill use this because its most practical. Im sure losts of people have used all sorts of options to great effect. Ive never used hydraulics, and I heard a few rumours of people having trouble on planes. Just wanted to check.

Im sure I could use them... but whats the harm in cables. Theyll stop me. Right?

[pwa]

Well it looks like my post caused a bit of a stir. Shouldve known.

Im not worrying about it by any means, I quite like a risk. The last 3 trips (admittedly in summer) I slept in a hammock, didnt take a tarp or a tent. If it rains one day, deal with it. But no hotels allowed!

Anyway its just that if you are building up a new bike, its good to think. yeah ill use this because its most practical. Im sure losts of people have used all sorts of options to great effect. Ive never used hydraulics, and I heard a few rumours of people having trouble on planes. Just wanted to check.

Im sure I could use them... but whats the harm in cables. Theyll stop me. Right?

You can tour on anything you like, so long as you can carry your kit on it. It is worth asking about these things while you still have a choice though. Personally, I'd avoid any technology that I can't work on by a roadside, just to avoid unnecessary hassle. That would include electronic gears (not likely on a touring bike anyway) and hydraulics. And I'd make sure I knew how to do basic repairs to the components I did take.

[TonyR]

Im sure I could use them... but whats the harm in cables. Theyll stop me. Right?

Unless they seize or the cables snap or the pads wear through

[reohn2]

Im sure I could use them... but whats the harm in cables. Theyll stop me. Right?

Unless they seize or the cables snap or the pads wear through

And if they ever do you'll be able to repair them by the roadside

[TonyR]

Im sure I could use them... but whats the harm in cables. Theyll stop me. Right?

Unless they seize or the cables snap or the pads wear through

And if they ever do you'll be able to repair them by the roadside

Yes and no. For worn out pads only if you've got new ones with you. Riding in gritstone areas you can get through brake pads pretty fast which was why I first switched to discs.

Snapped cables can only be fixed if you carry a spare cable with you.

I've just cut a seized cable off a bike. Last ridden two weeks ago and in the meantime its seized so solid that I couldn't pull the outer off the inner. So new inners, outers and a pair of cable cutters in the pannier to deal with that one.

Maybe I'm just lucky but in the 15 years I've had hydraulic brakes (on four bikes) they have been fit and forget apart from the occassional pad change. The cable brakes on my other bikes have needed regular maintenance. And I can repair the hydraulic hoses at the side of the road with a penknife and brake fluid bought from any garage. How many garages carry brake cables for bikes?

[reohn2]

Yes and no. For worn out pads only if you've got new ones with you. Riding in gritstone areas you can get through brake pads pretty fast which was why I first switched to discs.

Snapped cables can only be fixed if you carry a spare cable with you.

I've just cut a seized cable off a bike. Last ridden two weeks ago and in the meantime its seized so solid that I couldn't pull the outer off the inner. So new inners, outers and a pair of cable cutters in the pannier to deal with that one.

Maybe I'm just lucky but in the 15 years I've had hydraulic brakes (on four bikes) they have been fit and forget apart from the occassional pad change. The cable brakes on my other bikes have needed regular maintenance. And I can repair the hydraulic hoses at the side of the road with a penknife and brake fluid bought from any garage. How many garages carry brake cables for bikes?

I'm not denying your good fortune with hydros,merely pointing out that cable discs(BB7's at least)are easily stripped with minimum fuss and simple hex key tools that are carried as part of a tourists normal kit.
I always carry two spare cables(even on day rides),one brake and one gear,as they weigh almost nothing.
The only time I've had cables seize has been due to ice and that was a gear cable at the short outer near the rear mech.
I find stainless brake and gear cables if kept well greased and not over tightened at the pinch bolt,extremely reliable,free moving and long lasting.
I think I pointed out up thread the ease of maintenance,and reliability of cable discs IME.
They can also lock up either wheel with ease,with plenty of modulation,as such I want for nothing more.
If hydros suit you then be my guest
Disc pads of course are as easy to change on either system so no gain or loss there.
BTW I ride drops,so not quite as easy to accommodate hydros at reasonable cost.