touring on a trad touring bike?

[pwa]

I'm a bit surprised that you didn't find drops good on Alpine roads. That is where I find them best. The idea of undertaking a ten mile climb with straight bars is not appealing. For me the hands on hoods position is perfect for climbing, just shifting my hands around occasionally to avoid discomfort. I find straights, even with bar ends, have no good climbing position.

I've never had a problem climbing on a mountain bike. The clue is in the name surely. The straight bars are better for climbing because you need more control (due to lack of forward momentum) and better for descents because you need more control and stronger braking. The comfort side is subjective and personally I don't think there's much in it but surely it's an objective fact that straight bars have more steering power. That matters when you're carrying heavy loads on mountains.

You keep talking about steering power, but there is something wrong with your bike if you need "power" to steer it on tarmac and smooth tracks. My 700c drop bar tourer keeps a good line with ease at low speed and at high speed. That is with panniers front and rear. No wobbling, no nerves. And enough brake power to lock the wheels in the rain (which is 100%+ of the braking my tyres can handle). As for "mountain bikes" being a better choice for mountains, I have always considered the name a misnomer, at least on tarmac. They are primarily offroad bikes, and that is where their advantages lie.

[reohn2]

Has anyone read any Albert Winstanley books? My copy of Golden Days Awheel shows Albert on a steel framed trad British touring bike with drop bars (slightly flared outwards like Salsa Woodchipper bars), 700 wheels and something like 32mm tyres. There are nice pics of the heavily laden tourer in the Lairig Ghru, off road in Ireland and on the front cover he is descending a rough track from Mosedale in the Lake District

And I recently saw a video of Danny Macaskill cycle the Cuillin ridge on a mountain bike. Just because something can be done doesn't make it recommended practice.

So what's recommended practice,if it's stacked against preference?
It could be argued that old Albert's flared drops were recommended practice at the time because most club riders who rode rough stuff had only one bike,and it would need to be a true all round machine,TT/Tourer/Rough Stuff/Commuter a true 'jack'.But that was before the age of N+1,specialised discipline bikes for the working man or woman,unless you were well off.
FWIW I prefer drops off road or on,I climb regularly on the drops,because on steep roads or tracks it gets more weight forward especially in very low gears.
That said my MTB(or should that be ATB) has straights,Humpert Space Bugels,similar to Jones bars but with not quite as much back sweep or wallet sweep either FTM .
I like them and initially put a longer stem on to compensate for that back sweep,but after reading Geoff Apps thoughts on the 'tiller effect' on steering,went t'other way and put a short stem on it,and found the slow speed manoeuvrability on very technical sections improved quite a bit as a result.
BTW if you want to read about preference over recommended practice,Geoff Apps is yer man,his thoughts on tackling technical terrain on his blog is an eye opener.A man who questions everything and doesn't do convention .
As for drops,I prefer wide 44cm(because 46's are hard to find) compact drops that I 'customise' slightly by bending the drop portion outward similar to w/chippers,but nowhere near as much(only 30mm each side),this gets the end of the drop part on to the heel of my hand rather than in the groove between heel and base of the thumb,a position I find more comfortable and due to the short forward reach,wrist clearances is improved,especially if you don't ride stretched out.
The tops of these drops on my bikes are 40mm higher than the saddle and make for comfortable riding on the drops for me,and though I never thought about it until reading Mr Apps thoughts on tiller steering,puts my hands almost level with the headset.
The 'tillering' isn't a problem at say 7mph+ as not a lot of actual steering is done at speed or on good road surfaces as a bike with relaxed touring steering geometry tends to steer itself,but at slow speeds and on technical stuff where there obstacles such as rocks or 'wheel traps',etc need to be steered round.
Thinks... ...could it be that convention is trying to go about this the wrong way by stretched out MTB riding positions and ever wider very straight handle bars,I've seen some ridiculously wide 800mm MTB h/bars and 740's aren't unusual
Someone's sig on here is 'convention,what's that then?' or similar.

I have to say that bicycles and their apparatus(don't you just love that word) for nerds,err sorry,enthusiasts,can be very personal things,especially pumps .

EDITED for typos and clarification.

[Merry_Wanderer]

I'm not a great fan of the absolutism of 'recommended practice'

[khain]

Steering power = more leverage due to wider bars. On rough roads and tracks this makes it easier to steer so your arms and hands get less tired and you're less likely to crash.

However, I took a quick measurement earlier and my drop bars in the hood position are roughly the same width as my flat bars in standard position so there's not a lot in it. The bar end position is 4-5 inches wider though. The stem length, position, geometry and forward sweep will make a difference as well. At the end of the day I find loaded off-road cycling a hell of a lot easier with straight bars. It can be done with drops but is a lot less comfortable.

Reading this thread I wonder why anyone bothers using a mountain bike. Clearly a road bike would do the job equally well.

By the way, what shifters are people using on drops? I'm using bar-end shifters and one of the main dislikes I have is that you can knock them with your knees when cycling out of the saddle and when starting.

By 'recommended practice' I mean what I would recommend to a relative novice who doesn't have an existing opinion on the matter. If people prefer drops that's fine. Each to his/her own. I'm just saying they're not what I would recommend to someone for heavily loaded touring, particularly with an off road element.

[Bmblbzzz]

My tandem came with straight bars, which I chopped down, & I have since droppised them with drop bar ends (& V brake drop levers plus interrupters where the original brake levers were). They are still slightly wider than the drop bars on my road bike (which I ride off road quite frequently). I would prefer them narrower but wanted to keep the front bars just a fraction wider than the stoker bars so I know that if the front fits through a gap the back will too as it does get taken on off road routes fairly often.

I've contemplated converting the mountainbike to drops but may go down the gravel bike or CX route instead.

Rick.

Interesting item. A bit like a DIY minimalist Newk bar kit! Thanks for bringing them to my attention.

[foxyrider]

By the way, what shifters are people using on drops? I'm using bar-end shifters and one of the main dislikes I have is that you can knock them with your knees when cycling out of the saddle and when starting.

Bar end shifters were better than frame mounted when that was the other option. These days we can keep our hands on the bars and have better control by using Ergo/Sti units.

I've used Ergo's on my touring steeds for over a decade without issue, 9,10 and now 11 speed. I might consider an old school friction system for serious wilderness riding but for my Euro touring it no longer has a place.

My advice to new riders is to buy the bike/setup most appropriate for the majority of your riding. If you don't have N+1 you need to consider your purchase more carefully. If I only had one bike i'd go for my Airnimal, it can and has done everything my more specialised bikes - racing, sportives, day rides, commuting, touring and general pottering - and yes it has drop bars!

[reohn2]

Steering power = more leverage due to wider bars. On rough roads and tracks this makes it easier to steer so your arms and hands get less tired and you're less likely to crash.

I don't find that a problem,drops or straights,but I take your point.

At the end of the day I find loaded off-road cycling a hell of a lot easier with straight bars. It can be done with drops but is a lot less comfortable.

I have to be fair and admit I no long ride loaded,but don't find much difference between the two types unless things get very technical,most bridleways,and forest roads aren't a problem on drops.

Reading this thread I wonder why anyone bothers using a mountain bike. Clearly a road bike would do the job equally well.

I don't think anyone's claiming a dedicated road bike,or do you mean trad drop bar tourer? is any better than an MTB for true single track technical MTB riding.But there are some overlapping type terrain where a dropbarred so called 'gravel grinder' bike will do the job very well,it's one of preference for the individual.Seldom are tours done purely on technical off road terrain,if they are then a pure touring straight barred MTB would be better IMHO

By the way, what shifters are people using on drops? I'm using bar-end shifters and one of the main dislikes I have is that you can knock them with your knees when cycling out of the saddle and when starting.

My gripe about them too,riding slowly where there's a need to steer rather than lean,here's my solution which are almost as good as road STI's but aren't as vulnerable in a crash or fall:-

By 'recommended practice' I mean what I would recommend to a relative novice who doesn't have an existing opinion on the matter. If people prefer drops that's fine. Each to his/her own. I'm just saying they're not what I would recommend to someone for heavily loaded touring, particularly with an off road element.

I'd have to agree with that,new comers to cycling rarely see the wisdom of drops,it depends what you've been brought up on,and most people under 50 had an MTB when younger.

[Sweep]

I've never had a problem climbing on a mountain bike. The clue is in the name surely. The straight bars are better for climbing

Yes and bar ends on a flat bar are great for climbing, on my brommie as well - it has stubby bar ends.

[khain]

@reohn2
Can you fit a bar bag with those shifters?

[reohn2]

@reohn2
Can you fit a bar bag with those shifters?

Yes but it depends on the barbag,I can fit one of these with that set up:- http://www.topeak.com/products/bags/Com ... dlebar_Bag

[PH]

With a fairly similar setup, I fitted an Ortlieb bar bag on an extension bracket, though you do then have to be a bit more careful of overloading it, which is a good idea anyway.
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/ortl ... AtIu8P8HAQ

[pete75]

By 'recommended practice' I mean what I would recommend to a relative novice who doesn't have an existing opinion on the matter. If people prefer drops that's fine. Each to his/her own. I'm just saying they're not what I would recommend to someone for heavily loaded touring, particularly with an off road element.

And who are you to decide what should be recommended practice? The definition you give about above means no more than "By 'recommended practice' I mean my opinion"

You also bang on about wanting a lot of leverage to steer a bike, having difficulty pumping up tyres with a frame pump etc. Sounds like it's not the bars or pumps that are lacking but upper body strength.

[khain]

By 'recommended practice' I mean what I would recommend to a relative novice who doesn't have an existing opinion on the matter. If people prefer drops that's fine. Each to his/her own. I'm just saying they're not what I would recommend to someone for heavily loaded touring, particularly with an off road element.

And who are you to decide what should be recommended practice? The definition you give about above means no more than "By 'recommended practice' I mean my opinion"

You also bang on about wanting a lot of leverage to steer a bike, having difficulty pumping up tyres with a frame pump etc. Sounds like it's not the bars or pumps that are lacking but upper body strength.

Presumably then, using low gearing means you are lacking in lower body strength.

Since the thread has evidently descended into puerile macho posturing I shall depart.

[pete75]

Since the thread has evidently descended into puerile macho posturing I shall depart.

Presumably on a bike with very wide handlebars

[pwa]

Steering power = more leverage due to wider bars. On rough roads and tracks this makes it easier to steer so your arms and hands get less tired and you're less likely to crash.

However, I took a quick measurement earlier and my drop bars in the hood position are roughly the same width as my flat bars in standard position so there's not a lot in it. The bar end position is 4-5 inches wider though. The stem length, position, geometry and forward sweep will make a difference as well. At the end of the day I find loaded off-road cycling a hell of a lot easier with straight bars. It can be done with drops but is a lot less comfortable.

Reading this thread I wonder why anyone bothers using a mountain bike. Clearly a road bike would do the job equally well.

By the way, what shifters are people using on drops? I'm using bar-end shifters and one of the main dislikes I have is that you can knock them with your knees when cycling out of the saddle and when starting.

By 'recommended practice' I mean what I would recommend to a relative novice who doesn't have an existing opinion on the matter. If people prefer drops that's fine. Each to his/her own. I'm just saying they're not what I would recommend to someone for heavily loaded touring, particularly with an off road element.

I use bar end shifters. If you tap them with your knees, did you cut a bit off the end of the bars to allow for the extra length of the levers? If not, do that. Most drop bars have an overly long bottom section with a few cm that your hands never use. Carefully saw it off to make the gear lever occupy the area where the end of the bar used to be. It works for me.