touring on a trad touring bike?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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syklist
Posts: 1243
Joined: 19 May 2008, 6:43pm

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by syklist »

Tangled Metal wrote:
simonhill wrote:Of course if I was sensible I would change to drops because they would be so much better!

It's just a choice you make. One type of bar works for some but not for others. My partner is a flat bar rider and would never get drop bars. I learnt I'm a drop bar rider after trying flat bar bike out for a year.

Remember you have "dropped" bars, generally one basic shape and "flat" bars which can encompass a range of styles before you start getting near "butterfly" bars. On this page you can see the "flat bars" I tend to use on my 26/28" tourers, (in this case with a triathalon bar now removed from my bikes). I cannot get on with straight "flat" bars but curved ones like this I find very comfortable.

How would you describe the bars in this picture? Dropped? Butterfly? To make it more complicated, the ends can be rotated round the centre portion so they can be up and work like bar ends on flat bars or near horizontal as with butterfly bars.
So long and thanks for all the fish...
khain
Posts: 245
Joined: 5 Feb 2014, 5:42pm

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by khain »

beardy wrote:I would say that pumps fall into two categories, hand pumps and foot pumps.
The stirrup pump to my mind is a type of hand pump rather than a third separate class of pump.

I've never heard of a stirrup pump. So I looked it up. According to Merriam-Webster:

Definition of stirrup pump
Popularity: Bottom 10% of words
: a portable hand pump held in position by a foot bracket and used for throwing a jet or spray of liquid


Anyway, in use there is quite a big difference between a hand-held pump, where you only use your arms, and a track pump where you use your whole body. A track pump is considerably less effort.
mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by mercalia »

kylecycler wrote:
khain wrote:Thorn cycles also recommend 26" wheels for loaded touring. You need pretty heavy 700c wheels for off-road cycle camping, unless you're a very light rider.

....
This blog post by 'bretonbikes', a member of this forum, tends to confirm that
....
http://www.bretonbikes.com/homepage/cyc ... 700c-vs-26

That blog post really was an eye-opener. Downside is, a large frame with 26-inch wheels looks awful, although you can't see a bike from the saddle.....


depends on what you are used to - but these days most frames are compact ones ( even my 1999 Dawes 1-Down ).
Putting large tyres on ( 1.75 and above ) also helps. Skinny tyres another matter
khain
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Joined: 5 Feb 2014, 5:42pm

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by khain »

Erudin wrote:
khain wrote:Can someone post what the book actually says? A short extract is covered by fair use.....


Extracts are available to read in the "Look Inside" section at: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventure-Cycle-Touring-Handbook-Worldwide-Trailblazer/dp/190586468X/ref=dp_ob_title_bk


I didn't see much about British tourers, perhaps the omission is most telling. I did notice this:

"For adventure touring drop bars are simply not as good as straight bars. They aren’t wide enough to give good leverage with heavily-loaded front panniers on rough mountain roads … and the brakes are much less powerful than MTB brakes."

Seems fair enough. I cycled the Alps with drops and heavy front panniers. It wasn't that bad but I would have preferred straight bars with v-brakes. On very rough roads I can images drops would be pretty dismal.
Bicycler
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Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by Bicycler »

Then of course there's the world of off road drop bars
phelan.jpg

They're having quite a resurgence with the On-One Midge and Salsa Woodchipper. The latter being fitted as standard to the Salsa Fargo off-road touring bike
Last edited by Bicycler on 2 Feb 2016, 12:37am, edited 1 time in total.
Bmblbzzz
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Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

syklist wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
simonhill wrote:Of course if I was sensible I would change to drops because they would be so much better!

It's just a choice you make. One type of bar works for some but not for others. My partner is a flat bar rider and would never get drop bars. I learnt I'm a drop bar rider after trying flat bar bike out for a year.

Remember you have "dropped" bars, generally one basic shape and "flat" bars which can encompass a range of styles before you start getting near "butterfly" bars. On this page you can see the "flat bars" I tend to use on my 26/28" tourers, (in this case with a triathalon bar now removed from my bikes). I cannot get on with straight "flat" bars but curved ones like this I find very comfortable.

How would you describe the bars in this picture? Dropped? Butterfly? To make it more complicated, the ends can be rotated round the centre portion so they can be up and work like bar ends on flat bars or near horizontal as with butterfly bars.

I'd describe those as butterfly bars. In fact, if someone asked me to describe butterfly bars, that's what I'd describe. That they are angled to point downwards does not make them a different sort of bar.
BTP
Posts: 60
Joined: 1 Sep 2009, 1:30am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by BTP »

Barrenfluffit wrote:Also the availability of spares is relevant. I can't remember if the 91 Galaxies had abandoned 27 1/4 wheels but from awkward personal experience I can attest that tyres and wheels in this size are not readily available in France.
I do use it "offroad" but not in the sense of remote multi-day tours on gravel tracks; its not its forte.

Given that the MTB industry now only seems to recognise either 700c or 650b rim sizes I wonder how long it will be before the once ubiquitous 26" rim/tyre used on my Thorn tourer becomes as rare as a 27"?
Bicycler
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by Bicycler »

A declining choice of premium tyres maybe, but true obsolescence isn't even on the horizon
BTP
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Joined: 1 Sep 2009, 1:30am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by BTP »

Bicycler wrote:A declining choice of premium tyres maybe, but true obsolescence isn't even on the horizon

Not yet, no. But the reason often cited for using the 26" size on tourers is that it is the easiest to obtain spares for worldwide.

That was originally because the MTB used to be the main go-to option for people worldwide who wanted a cheap bike. Cheap Chinese MTBs with 26" wheels flooded the market in the 80s and 90s especially in poorer countries.

Thats changing now.

Cheers
pwa
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by pwa »

khain wrote:
Erudin wrote:
khain wrote:Can someone post what the book actually says? A short extract is covered by fair use.....


Extracts are available to read in the "Look Inside" section at: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventure-Cycle-Touring-Handbook-Worldwide-Trailblazer/dp/190586468X/ref=dp_ob_title_bk


I didn't see much about British tourers, perhaps the omission is most telling. I did notice this:

"For adventure touring drop bars are simply not as good as straight bars. They aren’t wide enough to give good leverage with heavily-loaded front panniers on rough mountain roads … and the brakes are much less powerful than MTB brakes."

Seems fair enough. I cycled the Alps with drops and heavy front panniers. It wasn't that bad but I would have preferred straight bars with v-brakes. On very rough roads I can images drops would be pretty dismal.


I'm a bit surprised that you didn't find drops good on Alpine roads. That is where I find them best. The idea of undertaking a ten mile climb with straight bars is not appealing. For me the hands on hoods position is perfect for climbing, just shifting my hands around occasionally to avoid discomfort. I find straights, even with bar ends, have no good climbing position. And my tourer handles well on Alpine climbs and descents with panniers front and rear. It feels really well planted on the road. And whilst I don't see touring as an opportunity to race, I tend to overtake heavily laden German and Dutch cyclists on their straight barred tourers, especially on climbs. They look red faced and suffering, even more than me. I go slow, but they seem to go even slower. And I don't think it is because they are taking time to enjoy the scenery.
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by willem jongman »

I use drop bars on a gravel grinder with wide and fast 26 inch tyres. I think it is perfect for anything short of truly demanding off road riding. But for that I would want suspension as well. So my bike handles tarmac, gravel roads and forest trails with ease, and I think it is the perfect compromise for tours in Europe. I normally take only rear panniers, but on a recent trip combining business with pleasure I also had to take front panniers, and that was fine too (other than heavier). Brakes are Magura HS66 hydraulic rim brakes and they are powerful enough. V brakes with the Tektro v brake levers for drop bars are also fine, according to friends who have used them (but only with bar end or downtube shifters, of course). In short, there is sweet spot in between the two styles of tractor bikes and traditional British tourers.
Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

BTP wrote:
Bicycler wrote:A declining choice of premium tyres maybe, but true obsolescence isn't even on the horizon

Not yet, no. But the reason often cited for using the 26" size on tourers is that it is the easiest to obtain spares for worldwide.

That was originally because the MTB used to be the main go-to option for people worldwide who wanted a cheap bike. Cheap Chinese MTBs with 26" wheels flooded the market in the 80s and 90s especially in poorer countries.

Thats changing now.

Cheers

I'm pretty sure cheap MTBs still use 26" wheels, worldwide. Though the truly cheap bikes in many parts of the world will still be roadsters on 27" or 700c, or on an older form 26" like the 590 (or was it 584?) used on old Raleighs. Or even 650b!
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by willem jongman »

Don't forget that in many poorer parts of the world people are shorter than in Europe. For them, 26 inch is and remains the only viable wheel size.
nez
Posts: 2080
Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by nez »

They're shorter than the Dutch that's for sure! ;-)
Bicycler
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Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by Bicycler »

Bmblbzzz wrote:The truly cheap bikes in many parts of the world will still be roadsters on 27" or 700c, or on an older form 26" like the 590 (or was it 584?) used on old Raleighs. Or even 650b!

584=650B. I don't think it was all that popular outside France. Many raleighs were 590mm, though I think the roadster standard is older still. FWIW, I recall the roadster standard being 635mm, 28x1 1/12" (700B!). I saw a modern Chinese Flying Pigeon last year and that was STILL the size being used. It shows that what we think of as obsolete doesn't necessarily translate to elsewhere in the world.

BTP wrote:
Bicycler wrote:A declining choice of premium tyres maybe, but true obsolescence isn't even on the horizon

Not yet, no. But the reason often cited for using the 26" size on tourers is that it is the easiest to obtain spares for worldwide.

That was originally because the MTB used to be the main go-to option for people worldwide who wanted a cheap bike. Cheap Chinese MTBs with 26" wheels flooded the market in the 80s and 90s especially in poorer countries.

Thats changing now.

That shifts the issue slightly from what I thought you were pondering, from general parts availability to parts availability on tour. I know nothing about the current availability of bikes of different wheel sizes in obscure corners of the globe. What I am certain of is that there are many times more 559mm 26" wheeled bikes in existence across the globe than there ever were 630mm 27" bikes, so I don't think we can assume similar problems obtaining parts in the foreseeable future. Reliant on some local village in the back of beyond things might be different. The other thing to bear in mind is that whilst 27" production basically stopped dead overnight, 26" bikes continue to be produced in large numbers.
Last edited by Bicycler on 11 Jan 2016, 7:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
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