touring on a trad touring bike?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
willem jongman
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by willem jongman »

+1 for drop bars (unless for really rough stuff). However, drop bars do not automatically imply 28 inch wheels and reduced load carrying capacity. A Thorn Sherpa is capable of heavy duty, but at the same is not at all in the European tractor mode. If you know you wil carry only 12-15 kg a lighter frame than that of the Sherpa is possible, but even then 26 inch wheels are nice for gravel roads or rough tarmac.
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syklist
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by syklist »

pete75 wrote:I'm not against Euro touring bikes just don't have your view that they're superior to other types. I have one myself , a German VSF TX400 with a 14 speed hub gear on the back. Bought it on a whim really just to try out Rohloff . It's not a bad bike to ride and my son really likes it so he usually uses it. I prefer the tourer I built for myself and don't most serious touring cyclists build up their own bikes with the components they choose?.

So if you don't build a bike from the components you choose, you cannot be considered to be a "serious cycle tourist"? :roll:

My VSF T400 Rohloff came with the components I wanted. The main changes were saddle and handlebars and the bike was ordered with lowriders which were not included in the basic specifications. I'm obviously not serious enough :lol:
So long and thanks for all the fish...
pete75
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by pete75 »

syklist wrote:
pete75 wrote:I'm not against Euro touring bikes just don't have your view that they're superior to other types. I have one myself , a German VSF TX400 with a 14 speed hub gear on the back. Bought it on a whim really just to try out Rohloff . It's not a bad bike to ride and my son really likes it so he usually uses it. I prefer the tourer I built for myself and don't most serious touring cyclists build up their own bikes with the components they choose?.

So if you don't build a bike from the components you choose, you cannot be considered to be a "serious cycle tourist"? :roll:

My VSF T400 Rohloff came with the components I wanted. The main changes were saddle and handlebars and the bike was ordered with lowriders which were not included in the basic specifications. I'm obviously not serious enough :lol:


Where did I say what you imply, I said most not all which is not the same thing at all, though perhaps many would have been a better choice of word than most.
It's fine if you can find an off the shelf bike with all the components you want and the TX400 costs a lot less than the individual component cost - a Rohloff is about 900 quid here, almost 200 for the schmidt dyno hub and about £150 for the pair of Tubus racks fitted but the whole bike cost £1400 new including delivery from Germany. The standard spec included a Tubus Tara lowrider. VSF seem to put a lot more thought into their basic spec than many other manufacturers.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Bmblbzzz
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Tangled Metal wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:
There is no way those 4x4s with all season off road tyres should have got stuck when my car got through.

Except they probably weren't on all season tyres.

Well there was some writing on the spare tyre saying all season so I assumed the 4 being used were the same. I don't know if they were those half winter tyres you can get that are better than summer tyres in winter but not fully winter tyres so are better all year round.

Also if my front wheel drive Astra with budget summer tyres got through without difficulty then surely putting 4 wheels in motion should perform better even with summer tyres. Other factors in 4x4 design also add to better Winter performance. All being equal I'm certain I'd manage that day in a 4x4. I always think there's a lot to be said for the ability/experience of the driver and cyclist when it comes it. Whether winter driving/riding or touring.

Fair enough! I still think that, in snow or ice on roads, proper winter tyres (with the snowflake and mountain symbol) will make more of a difference than 4WD; that is, after all, what people use in snowy climes from Russia to Quebec, etc. But certainly driver ability (and attitude?) are very important.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

pwa wrote:Incidentally, a Galaxy that doesn't handle well with camping gear is defective. That, surely, is what a Galaxy is meant for.

Never had a Galaxy, but that's always been my impression of their purpose.
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syklist
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by syklist »

pete75 wrote:Where did I say what you imply, I said most not all which is not the same thing at all, though perhaps many would have been a better choice of word than most.

I think my point is that you don't have to be a serious (cyclist of any sort) to like to build a bike from components in the same way that you can be serious (cyclist of any sort) and buy an off the shelf bike. How seriously you take your cycling and how you buy your bikes are unrelated.

pete75 wrote:It's fine if you can find an off the shelf bike with all the components you want and the TX400 costs a lot less than the individual component cost - a Rohloff is about 900 quid here, almost 200 for the schmidt dyno hub and about £150 for the pair of Tubus racks fitted but the whole bike cost £1400 new including delivery from Germany. The standard spec included a Tubus Tara lowrider. VSF seem to put a lot more thought into their basic spec than many other manufacturers.

The T400 (precursor of the TX400) was a bargain when I bought it in 2008, nothing else on the market in Holland, certainly nothing from the major and minor Dutch manufacturers came close in terms of the combination of price and components. I found one similar specced bike cheaper at the Essen bike fair (?) the year before we bought our bikes without Magura brakes but that was the only one I found. The T400 did not come with a lowrider as standard in 2008.

The only mechanical changes made to the bikes, besides routine maintenance has been to fit a smaller chain ring before last summers tour. I will fit an even smaller one in the spring as the load I take with me on tour is getting heavier, I am getting older and Norway is still just as hilly as it was.
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willem jongman
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by willem jongman »

Instead of a smaller chainwheel you can also fit a larger sprocket on the rear. 17t will not make that much difference with 16t, but Thorn also do a 19t and that will make a rather bigger diference. I did just that, for lower gearing and less wear on chain and teeth.
PH
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by PH »

It's fun to sit around on a cold winter's day talking the talk, and it's obviously proved wrong that you can't tour on any specific bike. Yet it doesn't take much looking to see that the vast majority of cyclists who do these tours well off the beaten track, don't choose a Galaxy type bike but something as described with 26" wheels and straight bars. I haven’t done anything similar but I’m going to assume those who have know what they’re doing.
pwa
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by pwa »

PH wrote:It's fun to sit around on a cold winter's day talking the talk, and it's obviously proved wrong that you can't tour on any specific bike. Yet it doesn't take much looking to see that the vast majority of cyclists who do these tours well off the beaten track, don't choose a Galaxy type bike but something as described with 26" wheels and straight bars. I haven’t done anything similar but I’m going to assume those who have know what they’re doing.


I'm sure you are right about that. The question for anyone going out to buy a tourer has to be "where am I going to use it ?". If the bike is going to stick to the back roads of Western Europe, a 700c wheel tourer designed to carry camping gear will be best. If the purchaser is heading for places where tarmac gives way to rough tracks, 26" wheels and fatter tyres are a better choice.
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Si
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by Si »

Tangled Metal wrote:Ergon do grips with bar ends included. They do simple grips all the way to large bar ends that are bent at the the end to allow a greater range that normal bar ends I think.


the ones illustrated in the book are just the grips, not the integrated BE ones. They may have meant the ones with the BEs, in which case I take back my criticism, but that wasn't the impression that I got from reading it without much pre-knowledge about the ergon range.
nez
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by nez »

al_yrpal wrote:My steel Salsa Vaya begins to struggle with a touring load and camping gear on the road and its just about ok on smooth surface off road unloaded. It wouldnt be suitable for a camping trip that involved off road riding. I never rode my Galaxy with camping gear on a tour but I dont think it would be ideal. It was a lively twitchy steed. I think that all the book is saying is that there are better bikes for doing a camping trip that involves off road riding. Having heard and seen peoples notions of what off road riding is on this site over the years, some peoples notions are far adrift from mine.

Al

Hi Al,
Might this have been an older galaxy? Mine is 2008 and is very stable. Mind you, if I were to go camping I think I would use the low riders on the front.
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syklist
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by syklist »

willem jongman wrote:Instead of a smaller chainwheel you can also fit a larger sprocket on the rear. 17t will not make that much difference with 16t, but Thorn also do a 19t and that will make a rather bigger diference. I did just that, for lower gearing and less wear on chain and teeth.

I remember the Vakantiefietser in Amsterdam recommending 21t rear sprockets for the same reason a few years back. Our T400s already have 17t rear sprockets so the plan was to go down from 39t chain ring to a 36t. I decided that a 34t would make the overall gearing a bit too low.
So long and thanks for all the fish...
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foxyrider
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by foxyrider »

pwa wrote:I'm sure you are right about that. The question for anyone going out to buy a tourer has to be "where am I going to use it ?". If the bike is going to stick to the back roads of Western Europe, a 700c wheel tourer designed to carry camping gear will be best. If the purchaser is heading for places where tarmac gives way to rough tracks, 26" wheels and fatter tyres are a better choice.


I disagree - 26" are an alternate choice not neccesarily better because a bicycle is more than a pair of wheels.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
pete75
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by pete75 »

syklist wrote:
pete75 wrote:Where did I say what you imply, I said most not all which is not the same thing at all, though perhaps many would have been a better choice of word than most.

I think my point is that you don't have to be a serious (cyclist of any sort) to like to build a bike from components in the same way that you can be serious (cyclist of any sort) and buy an off the shelf bike. How seriously you take your cycling and how you buy your bikes are unrelated.



Whatever. It doesn't change the fact that more than a few serious(whatever that means) cyclists build their bikes from components. Neither me nor anyone else has said you need to build your own bike to be a serious cyclist - that appears to be a figment of your imagination.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
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Re: touring on a trad touring bike?

Post by pete75 »

khain wrote:Indeed, it's not easy without a track pump as you acknowledge.

Where?
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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