touring on a trad touring bike?

[simonhill]

Some people however are just looking for the best tool for the job and don't want excessive risk or discomfort.

I agree.

Surly LHT, 26", probably over the top for most of my touring, even though it is to far flung places, but when you come across 50kms of roadworks, its nice to know that you will get through.

[willem jongman]

My 26 inch loaded tourer is pretty traditional looking, with thin walled OS Reynolds 853, a drop bar, classic TA cranks etc. However, it also has 26 inch wheels with fat but fast tyres (and some rather modern components). I think it is the best of both worlds, and perfect for modern riding conditions.

[khain]

What prevents a trad type tourer from having low gearing ? Mine has 48,38, 24 and 11 - 36 on the back. Why do they have to have poorer brakes than a European bike? Have my XT V brakes got less power because they're not on a Euro bike. Ditto for tyre widths - you can get wide in 700C. Why do you say narrower tyres are harder to pump up? The 140 PSI tubs on my Peugeot PX10 are a damn site easier to pump up than the 26" 47mm tyres on my Fahrrad Manufaktur TX400 - takes under half the time as so much smaller volume of air to shift.

Smaller wheels have naturally lower gearing so a 26" wheel tourer with 22/32/44 and the same cassette will be notably lower-geared than yours. Most trad touring bikes are sold with 28/38/48 up front, or were last time I looked. Sure you can change them but it's more work and expense. Most trad tourers come with old school cantis, not v-brakes which need special levers/adaptors to work on drops. Sure you can customise a trad touring bike to make it more like a European tourer but then is it still a trad British tourer? And aren't you just acknowledging the superiority of the European tourer?

Can you actually pump up to 140psi with a hand pump? Most struggle above 50 psi. I have a micro track pump but even that struggles above 100psi.

Oh and assuming spokes will never break in a 26" could be very life threatening.

I didn't assume that. It's just less likely to happen.

[Bmblbzzz]

Off topic but that snowy winter we had, 2011 IIRC, we had the pleasure of having to drive through the lakes in deep snow. An hour and a half journey took well over 3 hours possibly 4-5 hours. The interesting thing was to drive up deep snow covered hills past abandoned 4x4s with all the gear needed for winter driving. I was in a 1.7 litre turbo diesel Astra.

This trip home was fun not least because of how surprisingly easy if stressful it was. It was very much clear that the biggest factor in driving in.those conditions was the skills of the driver.

Yes, definitely. And as you say, quite clearly the same is true for cycling; possibly to an even greater extent, especially off road.

There is no way those 4x4s with all season off road tyres should have got stuck when my car got through.

Except they probably weren't on all season tyres. Most cars in the UK are sold with summer tyres, which we use all year because there's not normally enough of a winter to justify changing, except in places like the Scottish Highlands. A friend with a LR Discovery visited Eastern Europe in the winter, hired a Renault Clio and found that it, with winter (snow and ice) tyres, got through snow drifts his Disco would not; difference was the tyres.

Back on topic I would compare the above with touring. An experienced, adventure tourer could ride a wider.variety of steeds than a novice or less experienced tourer. One guy broke the round the world record years ago now on what is now called an adventure bike. Another guy more recently set off on a skinny tyred road bike to do something similar. I however would want a modern tourer, whatever that is, and would probably spec it out with better wheels, etc. Likely I'd buy from a specialist tourer shop, Ghyllside cycles spring to mind. Which would likely mean long haul or disc trucker. Possibly a surly 26" wheel I don't know. Gear can help with a certain amount of inexperience but ultimately I feel experience is more important.

Yes, experience and ability get you through more than gear. See also those tests where experienced mountain bikers on BSOs with gas pipe frames and side pull brakes outride newbies on carbon full-sussers with discs.

[khain]

Why not have the best of both worlds? A light steel frame with drop handlebars and light but stable handling, and comfort from fast and light wide 26 inch tyres? Do not forget that riding conditions have indeed changed over the last few decades. Roads are far busier, so you have to move more and more to small roads with often worse surface, but closer to nature. Such roads also demand lower gearing and often better brakes. Fortunately, both are now easily available from the mtb parts bin.

There are plenty of tourers like that, apart from maybe the parts about being light. Trouble is it's all about compromise. Tyres that are wide don't tend to be fast or light. Drop handlebars don't give as much steering power because they're usually narrower than flat bars and you need special levers/adaptors to use mtb brakes.

[pete75]

What prevents a trad type tourer from having low gearing ? Mine has 48,38, 24 and 11 - 36 on the back. Why do they have to have poorer brakes than a European bike? Have my XT V brakes got less power because they're not on a Euro bike. Ditto for tyre widths - you can get wide in 700C. Why do you say narrower tyres are harder to pump up? The 140 PSI tubs on my Peugeot PX10 are a damn site easier to pump up than the 26" 47mm tyres on my Fahrrad Manufaktur TX400 - takes under half the time as so much smaller volume of air to shift.

Smaller wheels have naturally lower gearing so a 26" wheel tourer with 22/32/44 and the same cassette will be notably lower-geared than yours. Most trad touring bikes are sold with 28/38/48 up front, or were last time I looked. Sure you can change them but it's more work and expense. Most trad tourers come with old school cantis, not v-brakes which need special levers/adaptors to work on drops. Sure you can customise a trad touring bike to make it more like a European tourer but then is it still a trad British tourer? And aren't you just acknowledging the superiority of the European tourer?

Can you actually pump up to 140psi with a hand pump? Most struggle above 50 psi. I have a micro track pump but even that struggles above 100psi.

Oh and assuming spokes will never break in a 26" could be very life threatening.

I didn't assume that. It's just less likely to happen.

Well none of the things mentioned like V brakes , low gearing etc were invented for or are the sole province of a Euro style tourer. My gears are plenty low enough and if they weren't I could lower them more. V brakes need V brake specific levers whether they be on a drop barred or flat barred bike.

My bike hasn't been customised at all - it was that way when I built it. In any case Trad touring bikes have been using low gearing for years along with powerful brakes. Cantis are very powerful when set up correctly and some of the French manufacturers, TA in particular, made chainsets with very small granny rings. Freewheels going up to 34 teeth were also available. These were developed for touring bikes - the trad French dropped barred randonneurs and often found their way onto tourers over here as well. Initially mountain bikes borrowed this technology from tourers. Early ones ran TA and Stronglight chainsets and Mafac canti brakes. Now touring bikes are using MTB stuff mainly because hardly anybody makes touring stuff anymore.

Nothing magical about the 26" wheel size either - the early MTB builders were in California and the most easily available rims, the version of 26" favoured by Schwinn. Strange though that MTB are now moving to those oh so fragile 700 sized wheels.

I'm not against Euro touring bikes just don't have your view that they're superior to other types. I have one myself , a German VSF TX400 with a 14 speed hub gear on the back. Bought it on a whim really just to try out Rohloff . It's not a bad bike to ride and my son really likes it so he usually uses it. I prefer the tourer I built for myself and don't most serious touring cyclists build up their own bikes with the components they choose?

140 psi is easy enough with a track pump and can be done on the road with a Zefal HPX . BTW it's not the pump that struggles in the examples you mention but the person using it.

[nez]

Sorry something went horribly wrong with tapatalk here

[khain]

Well none of the things mentioned like V brakes , low gearing etc were invented for or are the sole province of a Euro style tourer. My gears are plenty low enough and if they weren't I could lower them more. V brakes need V brake specific levers whether they be on a drop barred or flat barred bike.

V-brake levers for drops are pretty recent though and British tourers generally don't have them.

My bike hasn't been customised at all - it was that way when I built it.

So you built a bike to your own requirements. That's actually beyond customisation. But we were talking about what's best for novice users, who are slightly more likely to buy one off the shelf.

I'm not against Euro touring bikes just don't have your view that they're superior to other types. I have one myself , a German VSF TX400 with a 14 speed hub gear on the back. Bought it on a whim really just to try out Rohloff . It's not a bad bike to ride and my son really likes it so he usually uses it. I prefer the tourer I built for myself and don't most serious touring cyclists build up their own bikes with the components they choose?

It's not a matter of superiority. I merely said they tick more boxes for novice users and for touring in the developing world. If you prefer a different style that's fine but how and where are you actually touring with it? Presumably people who build up their own bikes don't need to be told by a book what is best for them.

140 psi is easy enough with a track pump and can be done on the road with a Zefal HPX . BTW it's not the pump that struggles in the examples you mention but the person using it.

Indeed, it's not easy without a track pump as you acknowledge.

[Si]

the book also offers strange advice on handlebars. It suggests that drops are better for roads but that flats are better if any kind of technical off road is encountered, which is fair enough (my own view is try both and go with what works for you). But on the subject of flats it lords ergon grips but doesn't mention bar-ends. I've got these grips...TBH I don't see what the fuss is about....they certainly don't make up for not having bar ends as you have only one hand position.

Wheel-wise it does point out that 26s are easier to repair in the back of beyond but doesn't really have anything else against 700c/29ers. They do seem to like disc brakes though...which I would have thought negate many of the repairability bonuses of 26s.

And don't even get me started on the author's uninformed views on h*****s

Having said all of this....I still found it a very good book, with lots of inspiring stuff in it and am glad I got it.

[Tangled Metal]

There is no way those 4x4s with all season off road tyres should have got stuck when my car got through.

Except they probably weren't on all season tyres.

Well there was some writing on the spare tyre saying all season so I assumed the 4 being used were the same. I don't know if they were those half winter tyres you can get that are better than summer tyres in winter but not fully winter tyres so are better all year round.

Also if my front wheel drive Astra with budget summer tyres got through without difficulty then surely putting 4 wheels in motion should perform better even with summer tyres. Other factors in 4x4 design also add to better Winter performance. All being equal I'm certain I'd manage that day in a 4x4. I always think there's a lot to be said for the ability/experience of the driver and cyclist when it comes it. Whether winter driving/riding or touring.

[Tangled Metal]

Ergon do grips with bar ends included. They do simple grips all the way to large bar ends that are bent at the the end to allow a greater range that normal bar ends I think.

[pwa]

Ergon do grips with bar ends included. They do simple grips all the way to large bar ends that are bent at the the end to allow a greater range that normal bar ends I think.

I have Ergon grips with integrated long bar ends on one of my bikes and they are okay, but not nearly as natural to hold as the brake hoods of drop bars that they mimic. They make straight bars tolerable for me, but they are certainly not comfy.

[al_yrpal]

My steel Salsa Vaya begins to struggle with a touring load and camping gear on the road and its just about ok on smooth surface off road unloaded. It wouldnt be suitable for a camping trip that involved off road riding. I never rode my Galaxy with camping gear on a tour but I dont think it would be ideal. It was a lively twitchy steed. I think that all the book is saying is that there are better bikes for doing a camping trip that involves off road riding. Having heard and seen peoples notions of what off road riding is on this site over the years, some peoples notions are far adrift from mine.

Al

[pwa]

My steel Salsa Vaya begins to struggle with a touring load and camping gear on the road and its just about ok on smooth surface off road unloaded. It wouldnt be suitable for a camping trip that involved off road riding. I never rode my Galaxy with camping gear on a tour but I dont think it would be ideal. It was a lively twitchy steed. I think that all the book is saying is that there are better bikes for doing a camping trip that involves off road riding. Having heard and seen peoples notions of what off road riding is on this site over the years, some peoples notions are far adrift from mine.

Al

That sums it up nicely. My 700c tourer (Thorn Cub Tour) is designed to carry camping gear on roads (including poor tarmac) and smoothish tracks, and it does that reliably and with no fuss. Better than any MTB. But I would not expect it to cope well with rough tracks. I would get off and walk.

Incidentally, a Galaxy that doesn't handle well with camping gear is defective. That, surely, is what a Galaxy is meant for.

[Tangled Metal]

I took a chance with a flat bar hybrid after my road bike became safe. I was starting to commute to work and the roads I used near work were terrible so I thought a tougher bike than a road bike was needed. I just couldn't get on with the flat bars. I broke my hand years ago and have elbow and wrist issues from wear and demanding use so need to change hand positions a lot. Not possible on simple flats. I looked.around and decided ergon grips and bar ends were needed.

Fortunately the bike was stolen before I got them so I switched.to a drop bar bike. Never looked back since. I've gone.from painful in less than an hour to actually being able to ride on the drops for ages. Drop bars just work for me. I need the flexibility of hand positions to relief build up of pain especially in one elbow which "goes crunchy" on flat bars.