New Eurostar Bike Policy

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PH
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by PH »

robgul wrote:I've asked Eurostar for the dimensions of the boxes that they will provide* ...


From the link in the OP
Eurostar's press officer, Rob Haycocks, also clarified internal dimensions of the provided boxes as 126 x 79 x 25cm.
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robgul
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by robgul »

PH wrote:
robgul wrote:I've asked Eurostar for the dimensions of the boxes that they will provide* ...


From the link in the OP
Eurostar's press officer, Rob Haycocks, also clarified internal dimensions of the provided boxes as 126 x 79 x 25cm.

That has been changed in a subsequent response to me from Eurostar as being of "suitable size". - we'll see

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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by mjr »

So, as suspected, even a road bike will have to have its mudguards and racks removed and I think 79cm is short enough that seat posts will need removing from all but the shortest bikes.
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robgul
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by robgul »

mjr wrote:So, as suspected, even a road bike will have to have its mudguards and racks removed and I think 79cm is short enough that seat posts will need removing from all but the shortest bikes.


Let's be positive here and wait for Eurostar's response on what may be a revised size box ... if they don't step back to the current position with wheel-in to the office service.

Another positive move could be to suggest that they ask Wiggle about its bike-packing/boxes and delivery for the built-up bikes they sell.

BUT thinking on a wider basis (out of the box?? - I'll get my coat) - for Eurostar to have "crates" that bikes go in would presumably make them easy to handle and load, and even stack on the trains (think of Ocado and its bins that make food delivery handling very simple and highly efficient - same idea, bigger bins) - the initial outlay would be relatively modest and there would be minimal ongoing cost compared with, presumably, a mountain of cardboard boxes that would be wasted ... with purchase and disposal cost ....

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mjr
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by mjr »

Where are they going to stack them, though? The seating plan on www.seat61.com shows no luggage space on the new trains except for the racks in the passenger areas.
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by robgul »

mjr wrote:Where are they going to stack them, though? The seating plan on http://www.seat61.com shows no luggage space on the new trains except for the racks in the passenger areas.


You obviously haven't been on a Eurostar train.

The luggage storage in the seating area is nothing to do with the freight - there are coaches with storage areas to load stuff like the freight, and bikes, carried and for catering stuff etc ... not exactly an old-style guard's van but same idea.

However the luggage space in the seating coaches is pitifully small if you have much more than an overnight bag - to the extent that the new-ish long distance services to Lyon and Marseille (where people are likely to have bigger cases for holidays) have blocks of seats covered with special protective bags for luggage to be stored on them.

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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by mjr »

You obviously haven't been on one of the e320s or even bothered to look at the layouts. :-P

No freight/baggage/luggage compartments.
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by Audax67 »

New intelligence from Eurostar:

Good Morning,

Thank you for contacting us regarding our cycle policy.

I would first like to reassure you that the luggage policy has been designed to use the space on our trains more flexibly for the benefit of all customers, including cyclists.

As you correctly point out, bikes will now need to be carried in a bike box. Any-sized bike boxes will be accepted, and Eurostar will happily provide a padded bike box to customers who would rather not travel with one. Please also rest assured that our staff are trained and ready to assist to ensure it is a seamless experience for our passengers.

When packaged in this way, it means that we can look at carrying more bikes than before depending on the demand from passengers, which I’m sure you will agree is good news for the cycling community.

I hope this will help clarify the situation, and reassure you that our cycling customers continue to be important to us.

Kind regards,

Eurostar Traveller Care
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Psamathe
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by Psamathe »

Audax67 wrote:New intelligence from Eurostar:

Good Morning,

Thank you for contacting us regarding our cycle policy.

I would first like to reassure you that the luggage policy has been designed to use the space on our trains more flexibly for the benefit of all customers, including cyclists.

As you correctly point out, bikes will now need to be carried in a bike box. Any-sized bike boxes will be accepted, and Eurostar will happily provide a padded bike box to customers who would rather not travel with one. Please also rest assured that our staff are trained and ready to assist to ensure it is a seamless experience for our passengers.

When packaged in this way, it means that we can look at carrying more bikes than before depending on the demand from passengers, which I’m sure you will agree is good news for the cycling community.

I hope this will help clarify the situation, and reassure you that our cycling customers continue to be important to us.

Kind regards,

Eurostar Traveller Care

So you could get a nice big box, wheel in your complete bike (panniers and everything) and give them that box (even have a bike stand mounted in the box). Maybe some cycle organisation should link-up with a French cycle organisation and get a load of bike sized crates so you book one at e.g. UK side, collect at the loading point, leave it at arrival point where it is collected by the French organisation (and/or vice versa).

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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by Psamathe »

Re: Rail Regulation
iviehoff wrote:
mjr wrote:I looked at http://www.ORR.gov.uk and I can't figure out what even requires them to take luggage at all! Is there a kindly railway expert here?

ORR is the wrong place to look. A train company's operating contract (franchise agreement) is with a funding body such as DfT, Scottish govt, etc. These vary considerably from case to case.

I've just downloaded Virgin Trains' franchise agreement https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... eement.pdf and the word bicycle does not appear in all 449 pages of it. The word "luggage" appears only once, where it clarifies that a fare can be charged for luggage.

However in Abellio Scotrail's franchise agreement, extending to over 600 pages, http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/sys ... ersion.pdf the word bicycle appears quite frequently. Condition 9 is entirely about bicycles. But ultimately all they really require is that so far as is reasonably practical, subject to availability, make reasonable provision for carriage of bicycles (unfortunately it isn't letting me copy the exact wording), which as we know means very little. Abellio have not always been very open-minded down at Anglia, where they brought in more restrictive rules than the preceding franchisee in relation to Stansted Express services. Which since they are nearly always very empty when I travel on them, is unnecessary.

I'm surprised the various cycle campaigning organisations have not been campaigning to ensure that the various rail contracts (which come-up for re-tendering periodically) do not include requirements to carry bikes and specify minimum cycle facilities, etc. I can see a lot of "transport" trips where people would take bikes on trains (e.g. into city centres) and cycle the shorter sections (home<->station, station<-> work). OK, it might be shorter distances but would help lower car volumes, pollution, parking needs/problems/etc.. More bikes as transport than bikes for sport.

(Ok, people could buy folders but a lot of people would probably not go and buy a new bike on-top of their already rather expensive season ticket - particularly when they have a perfectly good bike sitting unused at home ...)

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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by robgul »

Psamathe wrote:Re: Rail Regulation
iviehoff wrote:
mjr wrote:I looked at http://www.ORR.gov.uk and I can't figure out what even requires them to take luggage at all! Is there a kindly railway expert here?

ORR is the wrong place to look. A train company's operating contract (franchise agreement) is with a funding body such as DfT, Scottish govt, etc. These vary considerably from case to case.

I've just downloaded Virgin Trains' franchise agreement https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... eement.pdf and the word bicycle does not appear in all 449 pages of it. The word "luggage" appears only once, where it clarifies that a fare can be charged for luggage.

However in Abellio Scotrail's franchise agreement, extending to over 600 pages, http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/sys ... ersion.pdf the word bicycle appears quite frequently. Condition 9 is entirely about bicycles. But ultimately all they really require is that so far as is reasonably practical, subject to availability, make reasonable provision for carriage of bicycles (unfortunately it isn't letting me copy the exact wording), which as we know means very little. Abellio have not always been very open-minded down at Anglia, where they brought in more restrictive rules than the preceding franchisee in relation to Stansted Express services. Which since they are nearly always very empty when I travel on them, is unnecessary.

I'm surprised the various cycle campaigning organisations have not been campaigning to ensure that the various rail contracts (which come-up for re-tendering periodically) do not include requirements to carry bikes and specify minimum cycle facilities, etc. I can see a lot of "transport" trips where people would take bikes on trains (e.g. into city centres) and cycle the shorter sections (home<->station, station<-> work). OK, it might be shorter distances but would help lower car volumes, pollution, parking needs/problems/etc.. More bikes as transport than bikes for sport.

(Ok, people could buy folders but a lot of people would probably not go and buy a new bike on-top of their already rather expensive season ticket - particularly when they have a perfectly good bike sitting unused at home ...)

Ian


The commute thing is handled by masses of people with a bike at each end of the journey (invariably an old hack) - just look at the racks and racks of bikes at Oxford and then Paddington, or at Marylebone ... makes sense and simpler than a folder. The stations manage bike storage very well with good racks that can be locked onto, a ticketing system and some security cameras.

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ChrisButch
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by ChrisButch »

What nobody's mentioned (unless I've missed it) is that it was only about 3 years ago that there was a previous policy change in the reverse direction, when bagged/boxed bikes, which had previously been allowed in the passenger compartment, were banned, and you could only take an assembled bike. There were many protests then, not least from those who wished to transfer from a Eurostar (assembled only) to a TGV etc train (bagged only). The new change is not an exact reversal, but close enough for Eurostar to be tempted to dismiss the new complaints from the CTC etc as somewhat inconsistent.
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by PH »

So why can't we have both? People (Like bikes) don't all fit in the same boxes, some may want to take a bike as a piece of luggage and have it treated the same as any other large box/bag. Others will want to make a journey where only a fully assembled bike is a practical option.
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Re: New Eurostar Bike Policy

Post by mjr »

Psamathe wrote:I'm surprised the various cycle campaigning organisations have not been campaigning to ensure that the various rail contracts (which come-up for re-tendering periodically) do not include requirements to carry bikes and specify minimum cycle facilities, etc.

We have and I know other organisations have too, but it's high cost with a low probability of success.

(Ok, people could buy folders but a lot of people would probably not go and buy a new bike on-top of their already rather expensive season ticket - particularly when they have a perfectly good bike sitting unused at home ...)

I agree entirely. This letter wasn't to the dft but it's already online and gives you a flavour of the arguments used against the anti-cycling moves of the East Anglian operators http://mjr.towers.org.uk/proj/cyclynn/gastrategy.html
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eurostar bike transport

Post by andrewjoseph »

i read about the changes to eurostar bike policy ( http://www.ctc.org.uk/press-release/2015-10-13/cyclings-zero-stars-eurostar ) and wrote asking some questions. this is the response:


"Thank you for your response.

There is no charge for the use of our bikes boxes other than the normal bike transportation fee. You do need to book in your bike before the journey per our current procedure.

Tools are provided at the station for dismantling purposes.

We do not accept tandems so this wouldn't be an issue. Our boxes are designed to accept bikes of all sizes, bar tandems, recumbent cycles, electronic bikes and triplets.

The panniers would be taken on board as part of your luggage allocation or housed in the box with the bike, space permitting.

Kind regards,

Eurostar Traveller Care"

my questions:

While your provision of padded bicycle boxes would seem to be a good idea, there are still some questions I have.

Would this incur additional cost for the cyclist or are you providing them free?

Do these boxes need to be booked before arrival?

Would additional tools be needed to enable fully built bikes to fit in the boxes.

Would you provide these tools?

What would happen if a bicycle does not fit in the boxes you provide? for example, there is no bike box available to fit a tandem or other very large bike.

For fully loaded touring bikes, such as my wife and myself were planning on using, what would we do with our 6 large pannier bags?
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