Sardinia or Southern Italy?

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borisface
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Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by borisface »

Its come to that time of year when I'm starting to think about the annual week long Easter tour I undertake with some friends. In the past we've been to mainland Greece x 2, Crete, southern Spain, and Portugal x 2. We tend to go somewhere in southern Europe in the hope of half-decent weather and quiet roads and a bit of an adventure. We don't mind mountains and our main criteria are that there are some quiet roads, and cheap places to stay, eat and drink, oh and beautiful scenery. We stay in small hotels, b&bs and the like, maybe even the odd youth hostel. Typically, we hope to pay under 40 euro for a twin room and eat a decent meal with copious amounts of wine for 15 euros or so. Having looked at the flight situation, many of those to destinations that we'd long-listed are already too expensive for us. Two possible places to fly to are Sardinia or Bari in southern Italy. The question is that given our criteria, which would be the better destination? I'd heard in the past that Sardinia was pricey is that still true?
Therealsouthstander
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by Therealsouthstander »

Corsica is an utterly a wonderful island to cycle tour. Unbelievable scenery ,half decent food and decent wine..

Not sure about accommodation as we had our tents with us,great campsites..

Food , if it's a little pricey there's always Pizza...
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Sweep
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by Sweep »

I know sardinia very well and have cycled a lot of it, though not touring.

I would thoroughly recommend it.

I am afraid that i am somewhat out of touch with accomodation costs, though i do have the distinct impression that, to give you an idea of base prices, the campsites are often expensive.

Have you considered free camping OP?

Some do. It is illegal but as long as you stay away from beaches, arrive late leave early and leave no mess i don't think there will be a great problem.


or have you considered getting a good price on a well located place and doing day rides?

Cheap wine won't be a problem if you stick to cantina wine.

You can get a litre in a plastic bottle you take along for under €2 and the exchange rate of course makes it wondrously cheap. I know somewhere anonymous (no sign, just a dried palm leaf outside) that for about €2.50 will give you a litre of wondrous 15 per cent cannnonau. Pm me if you end up cagliari way.
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borisface
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by borisface »

I'm afraid I take the view that sleeping in fields is for cattle only.

I suppose an option would be a few days on Sardinia and a few on Corsica.
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Sweep
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by Sweep »

borisface wrote:I'm afraid I take the view that sleeping in fields is for cattle only.



I'd much prefer a field to one or two sardinian campsites i have used.
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Sweep
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by Sweep »

borisface wrote:
I suppose an option would be a few days on Sardinia and a few on Corsica.


Or you could maybe do sardinia and sicily.

Fly into alghero, pedal towards cagliari.

Cagliari has ferry links with both Palermo and Trapani.

Edit - maybe another time - just remembered you only have a week.
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iviehoff
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by iviehoff »

Most of Sardinia isn't expensive, rather it is more typical of Italy in general, it is in general a region of fairly average incomes, etc, for Italy. It is mainly the NE corner of Sardinia which is the playground of the rich, and is thus very expensive: the expensive bit stretches from a little south of Olbia up to the top, but the really expensive bit starts a little to the N of Olbia. Porto Cervo is the worst of it, ultraluxury apartments in a fake old town with a shopping offer rather like an airport terminal. It isn't a very interesting area for cycling anyway, as the nicest bits are mostly only accessible by yacht. Though the Maddalena Islands are nice to cycle around, if you can solve the expensive accom problem, I think I read of someone finding somewhere reasonably modest on the islands once. But most of Sardinia is a world away from that, though there are some other more upmarket coastal resort areas here and there which are a bit more expensive than typical interior locations, though its mostly the interior that interests cyclists. It is a great cycling island, though there are some tough itineraries to get to the next place with accommodation in places, notably on the western slopes of the main centre-east block of mountains. Also some places you'd expect to attract tourists turn out to have very limited offers - Fonni, which is quite a decent sized town in a touristical part of the mountains is a bit of a dead-zone for accommodation, or indeed restaurants, for example.

I'd have a look at some travelogues for S Italy. A friend went cycling in Calabria once and was distinctly underwhelmed, but that's only one opinion, and not quite the same area you are thinking of.

Btw, I went to Sardinia at Easter once and had quite a bit of cold and rain, though there were nice warm sunny days in between. The flowers were also excellent, though I think they peak in May. In general end of the month into May would be better. Corsica is further north and can still be quite cold even in May.
Last edited by iviehoff on 16 Sep 2015, 4:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by eileithyia »

do both, 1 this coming year, 1 next.....
If you are looking for cheap, Corsica is expensive; we also found Easter was just a tiny bit early as hotels were not yet open or only just opening... we also had some bad weather and snow.. (almost the only snow they had had all winter except it was mid april).
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borisface
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by borisface »

Thanks for the replies, we're not going to be going to any resorts and heading south from Olbia so that could work...
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Sweep
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by Sweep »

I'd second ivihoff's analysis.

Many places are somewhat bereft of places to stay so to tell the truth it might be an idea to book the itinerary ahead, particularly as you are on a tight schedule and don't want to camp.

What ivi' says about the costa smerelda in the north is also true. It's a small area and not typical of sardinia. But google news sardinia and that is what pops up most of the time - some "star" "spotted" showing of their tan/new lover/big boat.
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by Sweep »

Additional post and a question for ivihoff.

I'd say incomes are a significant amount lower in sardinia than italian centre and north.

Very significant social and economic problems in sardinia these days.

There has long been a shortage of jobs and the problem is intense these days. Lots of young sards are leaving.

I wouldn't necessarily bother with restaurants too much though would very definitely hit the pizzas from wood fired ovens.

Lots of discount shops these days in sardinia for groceries, even in small places. Even a scattering of Lidls.

Question- why was your friend disappointed with Calabria ivie?

I hanker after cycling in Basilicata.

<edited for appalling typos>
Last edited by Sweep on 17 Sep 2015, 1:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
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iviehoff
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by iviehoff »

North and centre are the wealthiest parts of Italy. Sardinia is poorer than them, but distinctly better off than the really poor regions, which is why I call it roughly middling. It has had the advantage, in Italian terms, of not being mafia-infested to anything like the same degree as the really poor areas. Though I agree it does feel quite distinctly like a poorer part of Europe, and outside Cagliari and Olbia where there are lots of shiny new shopping centres, most places look like they haven't had any investment for a long time. Lanusei, for example, the administrative centre of the eastern province of Ogliastra, is a pretty forgotten-looking place, as well as having a crazy one-way system that condemns you to a 6km detour if you find yourself at the wrong end of the town square - not that this bothers the cyclist too much, he just has to get off and push. The Italian economy hasn't made any progress in the last 15 years, so that's not exactly that there are lots of places without recent development.

Calabria is the most mafia-controlled part of Italy. The Calabrian mafia, known as the Ndrangheta, has proved itself the most intractable mafia for the authorities to address, and indeed its ability to avoid drawing attention to itself, unlike the more famous Sicilian and Campanian (Naples) mafias, seems to be part of its criminal success.

What my friend found disappointing about the place was:

1) Many towns and villages they passed through were rather disappointing - frequent earthquakes damage the region and rather than restoration of traditional buildings such as you see in Tuscany, there was just too much in the way of modern concrete boxes. Of course the mafia is particularly powerful in construction. (Although not really relevant to his disappointment, he noted quite a lot of rather misdirected road projects, fine roads to random small villages, bizarrely located sections of improved road suddenly reverting to old narrow potholed road, etc, generally indicative of deep corruption in use of funds)

2) The scenery, although hilly with a coast, lacked the distinction of many such hill regions, mostly rather rounded, deforested, bleak hills. This of course is a matter of opinion, which is why I suggest seeking second opinions. Though I would observe the gentleman in question has cycled and trekked in several other regions of Italy with much more positive opinions resulting, and generally he rather likes the country.

3) The coast is blighted by busy main roads, so for a cycle tour that discourage you from exploring that to some degree.

Of course there are some fine towns and villages, and some fine scenery, I think he was just disappointed that there was a lot of less interesting in between.

I've often wondered if Basilicata might be a rather more interesting place to visit. Though the description of it in Carlo Levi's excellent classic, "Christ Stopped at Eboli" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_Stopped_at_Eboli (the implication intended being that Eboli is a benighted place that civilisation had stopped short of) makes me wonder whether it might also be rather bleak.
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Sweep
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by Sweep »

You clearly know Sardinia very well ivie - sounds like you've been there a fair few times - any particular reason?

>>It has had the advantage, in Italian terms, of not being mafia-infested to anything like the same degree as the really poor areas

Yes, it is commonly thought that there is not much in the way of organised crime there.

But while I'm not saying it is Calabria or Campania I must admit to being a little bit dubious about this - after all it's not that long ago that many Italians would tell you that the Mafia was some sort of myth/figment of the over-excitable imagination of north europeans who had seen too many dodgy films. Also, the organised crime networks have made real inroads into northern Italy so the Sards are kinda expecting you to believe that their land is some sort of miraculous exception. Also tourism is a major major part of the Sardinian economy these days and I'm pretty sure that must be a great sector for nefarious activities somewhat outside the control of the state. Similarly I think a fair few Sards tend to think that tax fiddling (a major passtime in Italy) is a vice of those snobby northern folk but figures from the Italian tax authorities have shown that Sardinia gives the supposed champions a good run for their money. I think recently there have been reports of the "green mafia" involved in wind farms in Sardinia.

Don't take this the wrong way ivie but I don't think I'd use Christ Stopped at Eboli (excellent book as it is) as a guide to the current state of things. When I read it years and years ago I was fascinated by its desciption of Matera but from what I understand it has changed massively since.

By picked up a nice free guide to cycling in Basilicata from the Italian Tourist Office in London - might be worth checking if they have any copies left if you are interested. Of course being an Italian state concern, although with a prime site just off one of Europe's major shopping streets (Oxford Street) it is closed on Saturdays. They may as well be in Croydon.

On the plus side for Sardinia it has had a lot of money spent on it in the last 20/30 years. A lot of it European, though I could give you some examples of appalling misuse of the funds. Many of the small towns and villages have been paved nicely in the centre and tarted up and now look rather pretty (ie: less of the half-finished breezblock look) - in fact pretty in a way they never looked in the past. At all. Ever.

Your bit on the one-way system made me smile - I know a few 2 or 3 horse towns which give you the impression they installed a spidersweb one-way system to inflate their sense of self importance. But sure you weren't exaggerating with the 6km?

Another plus of Sardinia - the drivers are calmer than a lot of Italy.

Great place.
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honesty
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by honesty »

Sardinia has been covered really well here, though I found the camp site on Isola Maddalena was a reasonable price. We did go out of season (September) and it was going on a decade ago. I really liked Castelsardo and Alghero as well.

For the south, not cycle toured there, but have been down to my aunties flat that was in Palinuro a few time and can thoroughly recommend the Cilentan coast.It's like the Amalfi coast but without the tourists. My cousin lives in Brindisi and has nice things to say about the beaches in that area.
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Re: Sardinia or Southern Italy?

Post by iviehoff »

I went there just the once actually, but have been made to do a lot of thinking about it and routes there by friends who were considering going there after me. We also have a long-standing Sardinian friend we met in London, who has lived there intermittently since - she's back there now.

Clearly organised crime and corruption are an Italy-wide problem. But clearly the ability of some parts of Italy to operate in a more or less modern fashion, including some of the wealthiest parts of Europe in the Po valley, indicates it isn't so much of a problem in some parts as in others. The collapse of so many buildings in L'Aquila in that really rather modest earthquake can be attributed to organised crime involvement in the construction industry, taking money for delivering seismic standard buildings and then not actually doing it, and that is in central Italy NE of Rome, so rather to the north of the traditional areas of mafia involvement. Nevertheless, Sardinia is not one of the main areas of operation of the 3 most well-established mafias, which have been most held back by that influence. Sardinia did once - I'm talking 40 years ago - have a bad reputation for banditry and feuding, and a few notorious kidnappings took place there in times gone by: Nuoro has its reputation for being the heart of that criminality, so I suspect it's the kind of place where outsiders know they can't do business. Several of the small towns of the interior do rather look like nothing has happened for a long time, suggesting that there are people there making sure that nothing happens, but Cagliari and Olbia do not look like that - I can't speak for other main towns such as Oristano which I haven't been to. What is it with places like Fonni - we literally could not find a restaurant for a meal there. Also I don't think the Costa Smeralda could have developed like that if there had been a mafia with its claws deep into it.

At Lanusei, you can only go through the town centre when driving downhill. So if you need to go around again, you have to take the Budduso road to about 2km above town, then turning right onto the SP23 about 1.5km to Arzana (the road you'd like to go down you can't), and back down about 2.5km into town. I did it 3 times...
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