Saddle soreness....a modern epidemic?

[531colin]

I started cycling to school in about 1960, when you didn't have any spare money. Saddles were leather, there wasn't anything else except "mattress saddles" on cheap roadsters, and you simply used whatever you had, which was secondhand, sagging, lop-sided, whatever. Going to school, you wore your uniform, other times you wore what you had, which was khaki shorts in the summer, trousers in the winter and cotton Y fronts. I think for racing people wore woolen shorts with a chamois insert, CTC types wore shorts with a double thickness seat.....so they lasted, not for comfort......padded shorts didn't exist.
Yet I don't remember anybody complaining of soreness, and I wonder why not?
Because we were lighter? Because we rode every day? Because we didn't have the low gears so you got out of the saddle or you got off and walked? Personal hygiene was certainly a lot less fastidious in the days before constant hot water and central heating.
There is now a huge industry making padded clothing, padded saddles, gel this and shock-absorbing that, and still every couple of days somebody starts another thread about their sore behind.
I'm not complaining, I just want to know what has changed....or is it a case of rose-tinted spectacles? I can't remember being sore more than a handful of times in my life, including stuff like 24 hour reliability trials, riding from London to York for the rally, and all that other stuff you did when you were young and daft.

[squeaker]

Well, when I were a lad....

[beardy]

I started cycling to school in about 1960, when you didn't have any spare money. Saddles were leather, there wasn't anything else except "mattress saddles" on cheap roadsters, and you simply used whatever you had, which was secondhand, sagging, lop-sided, whatever. Going to school, you wore your uniform, other times you wore what you had, which was khaki shorts in the summer, trousers in the winter and cotton Y fronts. I think for racing people wore woolen shorts with a chamois insert, CTC types wore shorts with a double thickness seat.....so they lasted, not for comfort......padded shorts didn't exist.
Yet I don't remember anybody complaining of soreness, and I wonder why not?
Because we were lighter? Because we rode every day? Because we didn't have the low gears so you got out of the saddle or you got off and walked? Personal hygiene was certainly a lot less fastidious in the days before constant hot water and central heating.
There is now a huge industry making padded clothing, padded saddles, gel this and shock-absorbing that, and still every couple of days somebody starts another thread about their sore behind.
I'm not complaining, I just want to know what has changed....or is it a case of rose-tinted spectacles? I can't remember being sore more than a handful of times in my life, including stuff like 24 hour reliability trials, riding from London to York for the rally, and all that other stuff you did when you were young and daft.

There is the answer I think, regular contact between posterior and saddle starting with small distances and working up.

I do recall that as a youth I would do ten to twenty two mile rides a week and half a dozen ten mile rides in a month and possibly a twenty mile trip every other month.
The one time I did a big ride of around 40 to 50 miles the leather saddle that I was using all that time did punish me fairly cruelly (or so it seemed to a soft teenager).

[Vorpal]

I think it's a combination of an age thing and how people come to cycling. When I was growing up, most kids rode bikes. And we rode our bikes everywhere. We played on our bikes, and we rode our bikes to go play. Most people don't do that these days. The learn to ride, and either quit when they start secondary school, or when they get cars. Then, they come back to cycling in adulthood, never having ridden more than a few miles in one go.

I rode all sorts of things when I was younger, bikes that were too big, bikes that were too small, bikes with vinyl peeling off a sprung saddle from a town bike.

I never had a sore backside, even when I rode it all day.

The first time I remember having any difficulty at all was when I was in my thirties and I rode 150 miles in two days without having done enough training before hand. The longest ride I'd taken that summer up until then was about 30 miles. So, I chalked it up to experience, and did it again a couple of years later. But that was the only thing that gave me any trouble.... and then I had babies.

Once I had a baby, the saddle I'd been riding for 15 years caused chafing. Now, it's a fair amount of work for me to replace a saddle.

I'm sure that changes in skin flexibility and moisture content affect it, as well.

I also think that there is a lack of information out there about how to properly adjust bikes. People get a sore backside, and think padded shorts will help. Of course the industry has a vested interest in making people think padded shorts will help...

[tatanab]

Personal hygiene was certainly a lot less fastidious.

In the mid 90s a work colleague was suffering badly with sores, enough to see a doctor who told him that he was simply washing too often. In his case it would be 3 to 4 times a day.

I still ride in "touring" shorts which have a very thin terry cloth liner, then I use very thin undies. I have tried padded shorts of all sorts and I find that the thinner the pad the more comfortable I am. I have a pair of Assos shorts where the pad is about half an inch thick. It feels like a great big clingy nappy pad to me.

For something like the last 30 years riders have been told by the cycling press that they need pads, and so that is what they do - follow what cycling press and then their peers do. Do you really need special underwear to put under you work clothes to ride a couple of miles to work?

Some of the "need" for pads might be brought about by changes in equipment. These days people have frames with huge tubes because they are stiff and stiff is good. Rims are deep section because they are stiff and ---. Tyres are very hard compared with high pressure tyres of the 60s/70s where high pressure was 70psi. Handlebars and stems are larger diameter because they are stiff and stiff is ----. Then, to offset vibrations etc from the poorer road surface, people have padded shorts, padded gloves, gel saddles, gel handlebar tape insert etc.

So I would say that most is market and therefore fashion driven but it also means that almost anybody coming into cycling in the last 30 years simply does not know that you can ride comfortably without all these pads.

[bigjim]

I always wear padded shorts over my local 25mile loop. This time of year I wear running longs over the top of my shorts. I also use different bikes, though I've no idea why.
Last week I set off on my usual loop. It was only about half way round that I realised I'd not put my shorts on. I was in thin underpants and my longs. I had no soreness and I was on a hard Selle Royal leather saddle. Makes me wonder.

[reohn2]

As I've got older saddle soreness has increased,I put this down to me not having as much 'meat' and muscle on my behind and my skin not being as elastic as it once was(it's a little loose in places ). Leather saddles don't suit me at all,they either become a hammock or are far to hard and or i can't get them far back enough.I ride either Selle Italia Turbomatic 2 or San Marco Squadra saddles they seem to be the right shape for me.Due to them being no longer available new,I buy them S/H on Ebay,though even these vary and some can be very hard which don't suit me so it's always a bit of a gamble.
Currently I have spares so I'm sorted.
All that said I can't ride for more than 20miles without Lusso padded shorts.
From time to time(about four to six times a year)I get a saddle sore,it's usually in the form of a pressure sore and looks like a small blood blister,always on the left sit bone and if I ride on it,it's no more than a discomfort until it bursts,I usually treat it with Conotrane cream after it bursts to prevent infection.
Very occasionally I get a tiny pimple in the groin area which is a result of chaffing/sweating of the loose skin.

I've tried a few different saddles and short combinations but generally I'm happy with what I have.

I think it's hard to access anything outside one's own experience as we're all so different,you only have to look at the number of saddles on the market and read any 'which saddle' thread to realise that the subject is a minefield.
There's a lot to be said though for little and often riding,and as so many people only ride on the w/end with five or six day between rides it's no wonder so many people suffer so much.
I've ridden all my life to a greater or less extent at varying times of life but more time in the saddle generally means less problems.
I honestly wish I could ride without the need for padded shorts but I suspect I'd suffer greatly as a result.One thing though I don't find any kind of 'gel' saddle or shorts help.

Someone mentioned padded bar tape and under bar gel pads,when I worked and my hands were harder and had more muscle on them I didn't notice any problems,as my hands have softened when I retired I find I need the cushion for padded/gel h/bars tape/pads as I don't like to wear padded gloves.

[[XAP]Bob]

It's quite hard to find cycling stuff without pads - as a 'bent rider primarily I find this quite annoying.

On the upwrongs, I do have a couple of sets of padded shorts, and tend to use them - but they aren't essential - I tend to use them when I am going to putting in a significant effort.

That is probably the major difference - cycling as a sport has specialist clothing, which can't be found in unpadded versions. Cycling as transport doesn't need special clothing (although some us still like to push hard when moving ourselves around).

Look to the NL and look at how many padded shorts you see - not many, regular use at a sensible pace doesn't need them.
Come back here and most people are either racing/training or commuting at great speed. They (we) all carry the sport baggage. Those who cycle a few miles to work on a sensible bike (hub gears/brakes, full mud and chain guards, tall bars) don't.

[bikepacker]

Colin; you sound like me.

As many of you know from previous posts, I have long advocated padded shorts actually promote saddle soreness. It does however keep up the profits of the manufactures of the shorts, ointments and barriers creams.

[PaulB]

I think the design of many modern saddles may contribute to the soreness. Those old 'mattress' saddles made by the likes of Lycett and Middlemore - if memory serves me - were designed for the leisure market. Most modern saddles appear to be influenced by the sporting side of cycling and are more suitable for a 'bent over' style of riding where less weight is put on one's sit bones. Professional riders obviously spend more time cycling than we do so their 'nether regions' have probably developed some extra toughness!

[al_yrpal]

I have suffered from saddle soreness on and off since I restarted cycling in 2006. I have always used DHB padded shorts. Brooks saddles are useless to me, the hard steel back part with the rivets is particularly bad. The best saddle I have is a moulded no name one that came on my Salsa Vaya. I have a Charge Spoon on my MTB which is OK as a perch.
The revelation came recently riding the Brompton for long distances in jeans - no saddle soreness? The reason I have realised is that the soreness always emanates from seams. The edge of the pad in my shorts has been the culprit. So now I am riding with shorts and longs that don't have pads - the result is no soreness, but...I have yet to prove this on a multi day tour.

Recently I discovered another weapon in my anti soreness armoury. I find that sharp jolts, particularly when you are riding day after day, can cause cumulative damaging pain. With my frozen shoulder I discovered a wonder moisturising cream to treat aches and pains called Flogoderm http://www.pharmacytop.gr/gr/en/product ... tiki-krema. Its made from natural camphor, oils, thyme, eucalyptus and capiscum. It gives instant relief from pain that lasts for hours. Its about £4 a tube and £10 courier delivery from Athens, its a Greek product. I just purchased two new tubes because I gave mine away to an American lady in our party who fell and twisted her knee seriously during our recent holiday in the antipodes. It enabled her to continue on all the walking around we were doing instead of being imobilised. If I do get saddle sore in future I shall be using this stuff. Its amazing that something made totally from natural ingredients works so well.

Al

[geocycle]

I used to have a problem on long rides in warm or very wet conditions. I stopped using lycra shorts and have not had a problem since. For me keeping dry down there is important.

[531colin]

As usual, some thoughtful replies.
I have always thought saddle position is at least as important as its shape, and if its the right shape and in the right place I personally don't need any padding.....in fact, I can't think of a padded saddle I have found comfortable. Sitting on a plastic "school hall" chair for parents' evening when the kids were that age, I used to leave a sweatmark...... I did once try lycra padded shorts, they were horrible, clammy things, I got rid.

Al.....the metal bits of leather saddles aren't for sitting on, they are to support the leather, which has a bit of "give" when you sit on it. If you are actually sitting on the metal (cantle plate) at the back, the saddle needs to move back. However, if you are sitting on the leather and the corners of the cantle plate poke you in the behind when your leg goes down, then you need a saddle thats "round-shouldered" at the back, not flat at the back like a B17. And leather saddles should be shiny, so you can move around (I may not be a shaker, but I'm a mover) and the leather needs enough "give" for a bit of comfort, but not to be saggy so you are trapped between metal at the front and metal at the back.

Your ischial tuberosities (bum bones) are not pointed, the bit you sit on is curved, and as you rotate your pelvis forward (as in a racing crouch) the bits of the 2 bones you sit on get closer together, so yes, a forward leaning position does indicate a narrower saddle.

I don't buy the theory that modern wheels are stiff, and that contributes to soreness. Brandt, writing in the eighties, reckoned a wheel moved something like a tenth of a millimetre in response to a 50Kg axle load....a modern wheel will move less than that, then.......
Frames, maybe, but how much vertical compliance can there be between the back wheel and the saddle? Its triangulated!
If you sit on the saddle like a sack of spuds, then the bumps will kick you up the backside, but what happened to riding the thing?
Some people recommend setting the saddle as high as you can without rocking your hips.....that may be appropriate for short events when you start warmed up, but its no good for a 2 week tour with off-road sections. I set my saddle low enough so that over the bumps I can pedal smoothly through the bottom, while taking some weight on my "back" foot so that I'm in contact with the saddle, but without my weight being full on the saddle, the bike can make like a rocking-horse underneath me....its all about weight distribution. When I want whats left of "full power" I can slide back a bit and straighten my legs more.....if you can't do that, i think your saddle is too high! I don't think I've had a saddle sore 6 times in my life, 6 in a year would make me think about a different hobby!

I love the theory that people think they need padded shorts because thats what the magazines tell them....
Very few female club cyclists where I was in the sixties, more's the pity....
I see far too many people on wildly maladjusted bicycles, typically the stem is too long, the saddle is too far forward and too high, so to reach the pedal at the bottom the rider points his toes.....

EDIT.....idly flicking through a big manufacturer's website following the thread about "beardy touring types" I came across this photo of bike fit.....I guess the same bike fit blurb will come up whether you start looking at a tourer, as I did, or a low-pro TT bike.....
http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/retailers/precision_fit/....scroll down to the bottom

[mjr]

It's quite hard to find cycling stuff without pads - as a 'bent rider primarily I find this quite annoying.

Sure, they're marketed as "athletic" or "running" bottoms now because everyone knows that you need pads in cycling ones. I prefer ones with flat seams because I find them less irritating. Cycling jackets are still useful to me because I lean forwards (not 'bent) and they're longer at the back. Some T-shirts don't allow this but most shirts have long enough tails that it's OK.

I've worn padded shorts occasionally for a while since increasing distances but I think part of the problem was that I was using a saddle that wasn't my shape. Since replacing it, I've not felt the need to pad as often - indeed, the last few times I've worn padding, I'm not sure it's helped, to put it mildly. I may do a few more long rides unpadded soon and see how it goes.

Look to the NL and look at how many padded shorts you see - not many, regular use at a sensible pace doesn't need them.

Look at how many sprung saddles you see, too. Long live the Slow Bicycle Movement

[reohn2]

............ I don't think I've had a saddle sore 6 times in my life, 6 in a year would make me think about a different hobby!

I must be persistent in my enjoyment,and I know I'm not alone.I have at least two other friends who suffer similarly.
I've tried the full spectum of saddles,shorts and saddle positions,this is as comfortable as it gets for me.
I regard it as something I have to live with,sometimes I can go for months without a problem then like the proverbial buses,three may come at once.
And I'd like to bet that if you suffered similarly you wouldn't 'find another hobby',you'd do what you could and if you couldn't eliminate it you'd live with it as I and many more do!

I love the theory that people think they need padded shorts because thats what the magazines tell them.... .....

But for many it's not what the magazine tells them,it's what's most comfortable for them,and because it isn't comfortable for you doesn't mean it's the same for everyone!


As for ''riding the thing'' I'm well versed in not 'sitting on it like a sack of spuds'

As I mentioned up thread we're all different,and what works for one may not for another.Our physiologies aren't all the same,only approximate.