Debt

[PDQ]

The answer to WHO is very simple - its savers for private debt and pension funds for public debt mostly.

And as far as I understand it (it is a limited understanding) there are no savers in the sense that the banks have speculated away any capital they once had and it is lost.
They are now trying to re-capitalise by charging montrous interest on small loans(16 or even 20%) while paying "savers" next to nothing.
In other words lending money they do not have.
Additionally they have been given huge sums by the taxpayer (quantitive easing).
Perhaps the quantitive easing should have been directed somewhere else?

Please enlighten me?

[Psamathe]

...Additionally they have been given huge sums by the taxpayer (quantitive easing).
Perhaps the quantitive easing should have been directed somewhere else? ...

They've also been given loads of very very cheap money from Boy George under his "Money for Nothing" schemes. Banks don't need money from savers when they can get if for free from Gideon, so saving rates are worthless so people are not bothering saving - which might help make growth "look good" in the short term but no savings will be dangerous in the long term and personally I think that growth through consumerism is not going to be sustained and can't be maintained in the longer term (there are only limited quantities of resources we are consuming and discarding and the faster we consume them the faster they will run-out, etc.).

Ian

[PH]

30% of National debt is owned by foreign investors, largely German Banks and USA Trusts, and the Bank of England own 20%. But this is capitalism, the lenders need the borrowers more than the other way round. When they run out of reputable borrowers they'd rather lend to anyone than not lend at all, that's what toxic dept is all about. Much of the money doesn't exist of course, it's the trading of promises. That's why Greece so scared the money men and had to be bullied into submission, if promises start being broken it all comes tumbling down.

[kylecycler]

Mindless 'brand' addiction is a sickness...

I'm addicted to Aldi and Lidl - almost all of my 'cycling-specific' clothing and accessories, as well as other stuff, are out of one or t'other. Is that bad?

Funny story: I bought a DAB radio for a friend's Christmas. He lives in Alloway (pronounced '"Elloweigh" if you live there), the posh part of Ayr (although Rabbie Burns lived there too and he wasn't posh). My friend and his parents know I do most of my shopping in Aldi or Lidl and they wouldn't be seen dead in either.

Anyway, the DAB radio either didn't work or stopped working soon after; my pal's dad took it back to Aldi - the first time he'd ever set foot in the place - and sought out the store manager, a lovely girl with a very pleasant manner. She listened patiently, not wishing to interrupt him, then when he finished asking for a refund - he stressed that he did NOT want a replacement - she politely pointed out that the radio's box said '"Sainsbury's" - I'd bought it there because it was half price and cheaper than the one in Aldi.

Given that Sainsbury's 'livery' is of course orange and yet he still didn't notice, I guess he just couldn't see past his own snobbery.

[al_yrpal]

Mindless 'brand' addiction is a sickness...

I'm addicted to Aldi

So am I, but its Reading Rock this week so its difficult to get to Aldi so we went to Tesco Henley instead… eye watering prices, really expensive, very painful experience.

My style is..seek out decent quality at bargain prices and save save save. Spend only what you have on experiences rather than possessions.

Al

[PDQ]

Al sorry about pinching your quote(for myself!) above.

The answer to WHO is very simple - its savers for private debt and pension funds for public debt mostly.

I really don't get partial quotes on the forum, very well!!. No matter, point not person is important.

I feel my point about savers (ie are there any?) and repayment of private debt is quite pertinant and would be interested in your seemingly knowledgable opinion?

On onother tack; does shopping at Aldi and Lidl etc help with the National debt?
Seeing as a great deal of their manufactured goods come from China or similar. I am as guilty as anyone just a comment.
As an aside some of the (seeingly cheap aka crap)items I have purchased there have proved a false economy. I will never ever buy another generator there for instance!!

30% of National debt is owned by foreign investors, largely German Banks and USA Trusts, and the Bank of England own 20%.

and the other half?
And who decides?
I am genuinely interested. For it seems an area of knowledge only available to a select few and yet it is all of us, seemingly who must repay it.

IMHO the Bank of England let us all down badly in 2008 for failing to see warning signs in global economies. It was after all their job and well paid job at that and they proved wanting big time.
The Governor (of the time)has since retired on a guilt edged pension and has disappeared from the public eye.
What that all says about them holding our debt I am not sure. They own 20% of their own debt?? Sounds bizarre.

[al_yrpal]

PDQ, me shopping at Aldi wont do anything for the national debt, its just part of a personal strategy that I adopted many years ago after a large part of my adult life being in debt. And its in contrast to people who buy 'designer' goods that they cannot afford and get themselves into debt. Its a sickness.

Al

[francovendee]

+1

[Vorpal]

We owe quite a lot on our house. It cost a bit more than I was comfortable with, but I'm quite conservative with these sorts of things. I know people my age who have two homes that have roughly that same value as mine, and they don't earn so much more than I do. Also we have a granny flat, and some income from that.

Other than that... I tend to cary a very small balance on one credit card. I would prefer to pay it off, but credit ratings depend heavily on people making regular payments, and we don't have any except the mortgage. We have always paid outright for other things, such as cars. I figure that interest I pay for my credit card balance is a sort of insurance against poor credit rating.

[reohn2]

PDQ, me shopping at Aldi wont do anything for the national debt, its just part of a personal strategy that I adopted many years ago after a large part of my adult life being in debt. And its in contrast to people who buy 'designer' goods that they cannot afford and get themselves into debt.

I agree if what a shop offers is of acceptable quality at the right price then it'll sell,peoples values differ.

Its a sickness.

Al

It's a marketing marvel created by clever people to sell to idiots.Who would've thought having the word BENCH or similar all down the leg of a pair of cheap trackies would be the height of fashion,likewise driving overblown SUV's on UK roads.
But it's a free world,or so I'm told....

[Mick F]

.............. poor credit rating.

It's only in the last couple of years that Mrs Mick F has had a credit card ........... and car insurance for that matter.

We have been married nearly 42years and married young at that, so in all those years I've been the major breadwinner and it's been my name first on the bank accounts, plus it's me with the credit cards, my name first on the mortages, my car personal loans, my car insurance ................ and Mrs Mick F has been named on them some things as joint.

Consequently she had zero credit rating whereas mine was superb. Therefore she now has a credit card in her own name with me not having access (pardon the pun!) to it. She has also insured our second car in her own name and i'm a named driver.

Had we left it as it was and I popped my clogs, she'd have no credit history, no car insurance, and no presence in the banking world.

Next thing to organise is a current account in her own right in a bank that we've never had an account together.

[al_yrpal]

Gosh, how nicely old fashioned. Had a joint bank account since 50 years ago when we married, joint credit cards too. Never had an argument about money. Small purchases go ahead without consultation, large purchases always discussed. I manage the money which we jointly review now and then. Modern marriages seem to have seperate accounts which we think is wierd. You hear of partnerships in which one party has huge debts and the other party doesnt know about !!!

Al

[Psamathe]

.... Modern marriages seem to have seperate accounts which we think is wierd....

But come the divorce everything suddenly becomes "joint" (at least from the perspective of the least wealthy partner's lawyers).

Ian

[meic]

Gosh, how nicely old fashioned. Had a joint bank account since 50 years ago when we married, joint credit cards too. Never had an argument about money. Small purchases go ahead without consultation, large purchases always discussed. I manage the money which we jointly review now and then. Modern marriages seem to have seperate accounts which we think is wierd. You hear of partnerships in which one party has huge debts and the other party doesnt know about !!!

Al

I remember that my mother always used to nag my father about him spending their money down the pub.
In the end he negotiated that they both had pocket money each week for personal use entirely beyond the others value judgements. After a short while this had to be doubled because of my mothers hobby spending and dad had large stashes of cash stuffed everywhere after he died.

[Mick F]

We've always shared everything and all bills and accounts are settled "jointly". We never do things separate to each other and all large purchases are discussed fully. Yes, the very first bank account either of us had was a joint current account set up in 1976 ........... three years after we were married.

We married in Nov 1973 with about a tenner in my pocket and she had a week's wages, maybe a tenner too. £20 was all we owned, plus my 1966 Triumph Herald. I remember one week that we had nothing at all and she sold some No6 cigarette coupons so I could buy petrol to get to work and have something for tea that evening!

Happy carefree days!

It's just that if I were to pop my clogs, she'd not be able to drive the car until she'd insured it. She wouldn't have any credit rating or savings in her own name. Yes, the wills state that when one of us "goes" the other inherits the lot, so there wouldn't be a financial problem, just a "get at it" problem.

So now, after all these years, we can afford it and we're doing something about it.