Irish people foreigners?

[pete75]

Discussing this with someone today and said I don't think many in England regard people from southern Ireland as been "foreign" even though it is actually a "foreign" country - viewing Irish folk in the same way as Scottish or Welsh from a different country maybe but "us" rather than "them" so to speak regardless of Ireland not being part of the UK. He claimed I was wrong and most did think of the Irish as being foreign.
Is my view coloured by growing up in rural Lincolnshire where Irish guys came over for seasonal farm work and the ones who met and married local girls tended to stay over here and had big families so a lot of my school mates had an Irish dad and English mum.

What do others here think?

[Spinners]

I know where you're coming from and, rightly or wrongly, I don't regard people from the Irish Republic as being 'foreign' and regard Ireland (in it's entirety) as a 'home nation' but certainly not in a possessive way.

Why? Geography plays a part but there's a few other things in the mix I suppose, from always knowing someone Irish in whatever workplace I've been in (spanning five decades) through to their involvement in the Five/Six Nations and living in Swansea where the much-missed Swansea-Cork ferry was a big part of life making it so easy to nip over and back with complete ease plus, of course, the common language. Final words - Big Jack & USA '94

[Mike Sales]

Final words - Big Jack & USA '94

Sean Kelly and Steve Roche.

[Ben@Forest]

Many years ago Alan Hansen hosted a TV programme (presumably BBC) about the number of foreigners playing in English football. I watched it and the following day when it was being discussed on Radio 5 rung in because nobody seemed to be making the point that Alan Hansen had been, of course, a foreigner playing in English football. When I told the researcher on the phone that that would be my point she seemed reluctant to take it on board and I didn't get onto the programme. In the sporting sense, especially football where there is no GB side, the Scots are definitely foreigners.

I don't regard the Scots as foreigners but of course we now know that some 45% of the electorate would like to be!

[al_yrpal]

My granny was Irish, that entitles me to an Irish passport I think. Last time I looked it cost about $1500. Irish people living here can vote in our elections but I dont think you can vote in the Republic if you are English. I love the Irish, they are always so friendly and love a laugh and a drink. I dont regard them as foreigners, in fact I dont regard anyone as a foreigner which implies to me that there is something not so nice. I take everybody as I find them wherever they come from.

Al

[AlaninWales]

How natural is any nation-state? At times on the European continent, English and Germans have been considered the same nation - along with Gascons and Bretons in certain periods.
'Foreign ' just means an outsider or something (or one) unfamiliar.

[photobike]

Irish people living here can vote in our elections but I dont think you can vote in the Republic if you are English.

Al

From Citizens Information in Ireland

"British citizens may vote at Dáil elections, European elections and local elections;" (the Dáil in Ireland is the equivalent of the House of Commons in the UK)

This is a reciprocal privilege unique to Ireland and the UK as far as I am aware. There is also a Common Travel Area between the two jurisdictions but the operation of anti-terrorism/immigration procedures in both countries has made this almost redundant ie in most instances you need an Irish or British Passport, Driving Licence or equivalent to demonstrate that you are allowed to travel in the Common Area without a passport!

Peter

[hondated]

My granny was Irish, that entitles me to an Irish passport I think. Last time I looked it cost about $1500. Irish people living here can vote in our elections but I dont think you can vote in the Republic if you are English. I love the Irish, they are always so friendly and love a laugh and a drink. I dont regard them as foreigners, in fact I dont regard anyone as a foreigner which implies to me that there is something not so nice. I take everybody as I find them wherever they come from.

Al

+1 and would add that they built this country.
I have got so many Irish mates but I have yet to get over to Ireland myself.

[Spinners]

I have got so many Irish mates but I have yet to get over to Ireland myself.

Give it a go. For family holidays we've tended to alternate between France and Ireland in recent years and enjoy both. I've yet to cycle there though and would very much like to.

[hondated]

I have got so many Irish mates but I have yet to get over to Ireland myself.

Give it a go. For family holidays we've tended to alternate between France and Ireland in recent years and enjoy both. I've yet to cycle there though and would very much like to.

Spinners Thanks I definitely will and one of my first ports of call will be Joeys Bar which the great late Joey Dunlop owned now run by his wife Linda.

[Ben@Forest]

Spinners Thanks I definitely will and one of my first ports of call will be Joeys Bar which the great late Joey Dunlop owned now run by his wife Linda.

Though of course Joey's Bar is in Northern Ireland, and in largely Protestant Ballymoney, where I think they would definitely object to be regarded as foreigners!!

[Geoff.D]

My immediate feeling is "No, I don't see Irish people as foreigners". This is a feeling. If you share a common ethnicity and a (largely) common culture, I think you'll feel "kith". And, if there's been centuries of intermarriage you'll also feel "kin". So, on these grounds, Irish people are not foreign to us, nor us to them.

Strangely, though, I would have thought that this would also apply to my feelings about USA. But, I was surprised when I first visited in 1986 (and every time since) to find that it felt very foreign indeed. I thought I'd understand it, having been brought up in Britain with a fair amount of cultural overlap, But, I found it as exciting and stimulating as all my introductions to foreign cultures (eg Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, India, Ethiopia). I could only compare it by saying that I felt more "at home" cycling through France than USA.

I'm also mindful that the political history between Eire and Britain created a big gap. From William the Conqueror onwards, invasion, occupation, colonisation and neglect by England have left their scars on the psyche of both nations. (For example, on this side, the stereotype of "stupid" Irishman still gets churned out in jokes, etc.) So, on the political front, the two nations can be seen as foreign. I can't speak with an Irish understanding, but I believe that ex-colonised nations don't necessarily share the same benign view of the experience that ex-colonisers do. So, my feeling of empathy might well be rebuffed by an Irish perspective.

I'm happy to stick by my feeling. I don't feel that Irish people are foreigners, but I do recognise them as being nationally and culturally different. I guess it's those differences that made my one tour in Eire as interesting as it was.

[Ben@Forest]

I'm also mindful that the political history between Eire and Britain created a big gap. From William the Conqueror onwards, invasion, occupation, colonisation and neglect by England have left their scars on the psyche of both nations. (For example, on this side, the stereotype of "stupid" Irishman still gets churned out in jokes, etc.) So, on the political front, the two nations can be seen as foreign. I can't speak with an Irish understanding, but I believe that ex-colonised nations don't necessarily share the same benign view of the experience that ex-colonisers do. So, my feeling of empathy might well be rebuffed by an Irish perspective.

Someone I know, English but married to an Irish woman and who has lived in both countries has told me that despite all the friendliness and bonhomie there is a distinct English-unfriendly sentiment. 'English-unfriendly' is not a great term but I am trying to find something that is less strong than 'anti-English'. Of course in remoter areas it could be a sentiment about strangers or foreigners generally, not just English people.

[ArMoRothair]

There is also a Common Travel Area between the two jurisdictions but the operation of anti-terrorism/immigration procedures in both countries has made this almost redundant ie in most instances you need an Irish or British Passport, Driving Licence or equivalent to demonstrate that you are allowed to travel in the Common Area without a passport!

Peter

There is passport control at Dublin airport but I've not seen any at Dublin Port - you just drive/cycle off the ferry and into the city.

[ArMoRothair]

Strangely, though, I would have thought that this would also apply to my feelings about USA. But, I was surprised when I first visited in 1986 (and every time since) to find that it felt very foreign indeed. I thought I'd understand it, having been brought up in Britain with a fair amount of cultural overlap, But, I found it as exciting and stimulating as all my introductions to foreign cultures (eg Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, India, Ethiopia). I could only compare it by saying that I felt more "at home" cycling through France than USA.

I know what you mean. I worked quite a bit in the Gulf states and fellow consultants there would often from the USA. Churchill was right: two nations separated by a common language.

I then did one project in South Africa and instantly felt at home. It was only when we were in the thick of the project we realised we were all ex-British colonies: South African architects, Malaysian client, Indian and SA contractors, New Zealand procurement manager, myself Irish. We got on like a house on fire, the project was a joy to work on.