Not enough women on the forum

[horizon]

Despite the laugh-a-minute nature of this esteemed forum, many new arrivals come here only through gritted teeth in last desperate attempts to find a bike that fits or a jacket that keeps them dry. But not many women. The bad news is that they are killing themselves by not taking enough exercise. If they were, and cycling would be an obvious choice of exercise, they would be here in equal numbers to men looking for solutions to problems or sharing experiences.

Here's the Guardian link to the report but it is probably flagged up elsewhere:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... k-exercise

[Si]

Few women on the forum because there are still relatively few women in cycling. Why is that? Is it because they don't want to cycle - I think not. I base this on BNB (http://bikenorth.birmingham.gov.uk/) rides. These rides are specifically designed for the complete beginner or returner, are promoted by the council as part of their health and leisure projects (rather than by lycra clad cycle clubs), and try to disassociate themselves from the sport/club image of cycling. We get more women out than men (and, indeed, a very high number of black/Asian women - for instance on last Saturday's ride all the participants were female and 3/4 were Asian). Thus, I conclude that women recognise the health benefits of cycling, that they want to try it out, but a number are put off by the image of cycling. By image I don't mean the lack of pink and flowery bikes, but the traditional male/club/sport based image. Likewise, I've heard many stories of women being ignored or talked down to in bike shops, which can't help. And (apologies to the 'Anti-PC-Brigade' Brigade) I've also experienced a fair bit of racism and sexism on club rides (and for that matter, ageism too).

It's interesting that when we took some people from the BNB project on a CTC ride they continued to refer to the CTC riders as "Proper Cyclists" despite the fact that the BNB riders did exactly the same ride and even managed to drop some of the CTC riders on the way back. And last winter when the snow was deep'n'crisp'n'even the BNB riders still went out whereas the CTC rides were cancelled! Yet, the BNB people still don't see them selves as 'cyclists', rather they believe that they are normal people who ride bikes.

[Si]

Darwinian theory in action.

If overweight, sickly women die childless, and slobby, fat, beer swilling men don’t get laid, the species is on its way back to recovery.

Oh yes, that reminds me of the other reason why some women (and men) won't cycle - as well as the sexism and racism, there is also the bigotry shown towards overweight people. Contrary to some antiquated opinion, insulting those who are overweight doesn't actually help them in any way, rather it is more likely to make their condition worse by isolating them and driving them away from something that might help them.

Again, apologies to the 'Anti-PC-Brigade' Brigade for stating the truth

[Brucey]

.... Yet, the BNB people still don't see them selves as 'cyclists', rather they believe that they are normal people who ride bikes.

Ergo.... definition of cyclist; 'abnormal person who rides a bicycle'...?



cheers

[meic]

definition of cyclist; 'abnormal person who rides a bicycle'...?

That suits me.


I could even have a new signature:

Touring Cyclist: Abnormal person with beard and sandals who rides a bicycle.

[Si]

.... Yet, the BNB people still don't see them selves as 'cyclists', rather they believe that they are normal people who ride bikes.

Ergo.... definition of cyclist; 'abnormal person who rides a bicycle'...?



cheers

Well, yes - that's the point isn't it. To them, to be a proper cyclist you have to be really fit (do training, etc), have all the lycra gear and flash bike, and have a lifetime's worth of secret knowledge about how bikes work and how to use them....all of which marks you out as a pretty abnormal person compared to the rest of society.

Of course, we all know that you don't have to be super fit, have a flash bike, know all about mechanics, etc (there are even a few of us on here that haven't been taken in by the rule "thou must wear lycra") to be a cyclist.....but it is the image that cycling can often convey.

[reohn2]

I've never seen as many people cycling as I do now, and I've never seen as many women cycling women on all different kinds of bikes and all different shapes and sizes,right across the age range from teenagers to 70 somethings.I welcome it and find it heartening.
As for the number of women this forum,could it be that certain people with certain outlooks actively drive them away?

[StellaLdn.]

I noticed this too. Although personally, I don't really mind, I find it interesting that cycling women don't come forward. I could think of one reason for this: while most men try to fix problems themselves, women go to a shop and get it done. I was one of them until last year. Even with a puncture. Never fixed one myself and I've been cycling all my life. (Not touring.)
In London, I do see quite a good mix of cyclists, but more men clad in Lycra.
Re the being 'talking down': I've heard of it, but never had the experience myself. Maybe because I never had something seriously wrong with my bike; in the past six years of cycling n London I had a handful of punctures and that's basically it.
I know that I've inspired at least two people to (a woman and a man) to start cycling and both are still at it, although the guy doesn't cycle in London, for he's too scared and nothing I do can convince him otherwise.
I've started a cycling club, out of 11 people who expressed interest (including myself) six are women--all more or less those who commute or go on shorter rides as most are beginners. I'm rather committed to get more women on bikes (I have a plan) as not only does it have a great heath benefit, but also is lots of fun and the other plus side is that it's definitely cheaper to commute (cheaper, because you have some repairs every now and again, not everyone gets as lucky as I have been).
I even went one step further and became a bike mechanic--not many female mechanics either. It was then, in a bike shop, where I experienced sexism: a guy didn't want to deal with a woman, who clearly had more knowledge than him. It was hilarious. I'm a tall blonde, with long hair and good-sized boobs which made him think I'm not capable of dealing with his bike. But it's very rare to have this. Mostly I get a very surprised look that changes into admiration when I tell people what I do.

[StellaLdn.]

I've never seen as many people cycling as I do now, and I've never seen as many women cycling women on all different kinds of bikes and all different shapes and sizes,right across the age range from teenagers to 70 somethings.I welcome it and find it heartening.
As for the number of women this forum,could it be that certain people with certain outlooks actively drive them away?

Ditto. I love it. And I'm not a Lycra wearer or have a flashy carbon bike. Not sure what to do on longer (3 hours+) as I do get a tad sore. Must admit that I ride on men's saddles (Brooks, Selle Regal), so every now and again, I switch to my sit-up-and-beg and enjoy a comfy saddle for once.

[meic]

Contrary to some antiquated opinion, insulting those who are overweight doesn't actually help them in any way, rather it is more likely to make their condition worse by isolating them and driving them away from something that might help them.

Again, apologies to the 'Anti-PC-Brigade' Brigade for stating the truth

Let me check out my hierarchy of arguments here. You are dismissing the opinion on the grounds that it has a long history?
Rather like "the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares of the opposite and adjacent" has a long history.

I put it to you Si that you are not speaking the Truth but the present fashionable version of the truth which will probably be replaced before too long with another truth then yet another truth.

Disclaimer: Nothing in this post or any other of my posts should be seen as supporting Ayesha's post (or any other of his posts).

[JohnW]

For many, many reasons it is a source of concern to me that the proportion of women in the cycling fraternity is not the same as the proportion of women in society generally. We could (and maybe will) continue this thread in deep sociological and philosophical discussion, or we could come up with some flippancy and insolence - like : "no-one makes pink bikes".

But............last summer, to celebrate the centenary of a local small town and to celebrate the opening of another short length of railway track turned Sustrans facility (about two miles long) a local CTC member arranged a day of fun and guided rides along the new Greenway and some of us from our CTC section turned up as volunteers to guide and lead the rides. I was one of them.

I was (pleasantly) surprised at the number of mother/daughter pairings that turned up. Possibly a third of the local general public who came along were in that category. We had leaflets, posters and some application forms for the CTC. However, to a woman, the mother/daughter duos that came on the groups that I led said that they'd really enjoyed the cycling and they'd dearly love to do it but they'd never ride on the roads because of the quantity of motor vehicles and the behaviour of their drivers - they consider the roads to be dangerous and too many drivers aggressive and abusive.

40/50 years ago I would say that about a third of riding members in my part of the world were women - that's not the 50% that would be closer to perfection, but closer............but vehicles were present in fewer quantities and a larger proportion of drivers were human beings and there were no HGVs as we know them today.

I don't want misinterpreting and misrepresenting here, I don't say that's the only factor..........but it's certainly one.

[Si]

Contrary to some antiquated opinion, insulting those who are overweight doesn't actually help them in any way, rather it is more likely to make their condition worse by isolating them and driving them away from something that might help them.

Again, apologies to the 'Anti-PC-Brigade' Brigade for stating the truth

Let me check out my hierarchy of arguments here. You are dismissing the opinion on the grounds that it has a long history?
Rather like "the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares of the opposite and adjacent" has a long history.

I put it to you Si that you are not speaking the Truth but the present fashionable version of the truth which will probably be replaced before too long with another truth then yet another truth.

I put it to you meic that you should brush up on your logic. Just because the sentence contains a description of the theory it does not follow that the premise is based upon that description.

Contrary to what forum user Meic says, I am right. Am I right because Meic is a forum user?

[eileithyia]

Lots of ladies are out cycling. However there is an image problem... possibly? The younger (ish) generation of women coming into cycling are reasonably affluent, have money to spend on kit and clothing. Then I look around some of the 'old school' cyclists some of whom I cycle with: tatty old bikes, tatty dirty clothing, sometimes bearded with sandal (sorry Meic love you loads xx). It is not an attractive image..... not very inspiring no matter how lovely you all are and how experienced

However there are a few female forums and facebook groups; I am member of 3 facebook groups that specifically aimed at sharing rides, chat and information with other women (men are not excluded) and Total Women's Cycling which seems to be a magazine/facebook group, which reviews all sorts of women's kit, also has it's own forum... not excessively active.

I am also a member of timetrialling forum which at times becomes a bit top heavy with male testosterone, number crunching, 'willy' waving comments. This does not mean the men are not totally supportive of the women who do contribute it is just that anyone looking in for a first time might find it a bit alarming. Esp where some of the posters obviously seem to know each other and have a 'history' of a bit of banter between themselves... the sort of teasing and joshing or leg pulling that is obvious face to face in the café but less so to someone dipping into a forum for the first time....

Back in the summer we started a women specific section of the forum where men are invited to contribute sensibly but and sexist comments are banned, so that we can discuss specific issues; kit, clothing, saddle issues etc.

It is not that the ladies are not out there, they are but are using lots of other sites.

[meic]

Si:
Yes but the term antiquated was (I think only) put in there inorder to try and undermine or denigrate the status of the argument. It wasnt a neutral descriptor with any other need to be there.

Does putting meic in green mean you are looking to turn me into a moderator?

[JohnW]

..............certain people with certain outlooks actively drive them away?

............."drive" being the operative word.