Dawes Galaxy -v- Raleigh Randonneur

[noel.shearer@uuplc.co.uk]

Hi - first post after lurking on the sidelines for months. Apologies for the length of this first post - difficult to describe problem.

I bought a Dawes Galaxy in 2004 to do the C2C ride, after having previously owned 3 others over a period of 20+years. At the time, I suspected I was being sold a frame size too small, but was assured by the (reputable and long established) LBS owner that it was right for me.

Over the past 3 years, I have really struggled to get comfortable on the bike - finally went for a fitting with Paul Hewitt earlier this year, who confirmed that the frame was really too small, but with a laid back seat post and change of saddle managed to get a theroetical correct fit.

I also have a Raleigh Randonneur that I built up from a donated frame and wheels last winter. The componentry is fairly old and low spec, but frame is good condition. This is a frame size bigger, but all the contact points are in pretty much the same position as my Galaxy (after the fitting with Paul). In theory then, the riding position is the same.

But the Raleigh is a dream to ride compared to the Galaxy, with a much softer and more comfortable ride. I suffer from lower back pain and can ride much greater distances on the Raleigh than on the Dawes.

The Raleigh frame dates from around 1990 I think and is badged as 531 frame and forks. The Dawes is 2003 or 2004 and I understood it to be 531 frame only. However Paul H pointed out to me that, although definitely badged up as a Galaxy, there are no 531 stickers on the frame!

The Galaxy frame had a larger diameter top tube and appears to have significantly thicker seat stays. The Galaxy rides on 32mm Schwalbe Marathons and the Randonneur on 35mm Continental Contacts.

Question is this - can the difference in comfort be solely down to the different tyres fitted to the two bikes or is there something more fundamental going on with the relative suppleness of the two frames?

Could I have a Galaxy badged, but not 531 frame? (I am sure it dates from before the change to 631 by the way).

At the moment, I am planning on swapping all of the Galaxy components onto the Randonneur to hopefully end up with a comfortable bike that is also well specced with modern and reliable componentry.

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks, Noel

[julk]

Noel,

I have an old Dawes with 531 ST tubing (badged), this gives a stiff ride until it is loaded with a full camping set of 20-25kgs. Once loaded up it handles differently and gives that better 'supple' ride you describe for the Raleigh.

I have also tried different tyres. The larger volume types give me the most comfortable ride, the reinforced p***ture proofed type give me the least supple ride. I now use larger volume reinforced tyres as I got fed up with repairing p***tures on tyres which gave me a better ride. I seem to ride over a lot of glass in the area I live in.

I suspect your Raleigh is a lighter gauge of 531 than the Dawes. You say it is a better size for you, confirmed by PH. The larger volume of air in the conti tyres which also have a lighter puncture proofing built in helps.
In my opinion this is all adding up to your much better ride.

I think you have the right idea in moving the best components onto the most comfortable frame to suit your riding.

[noel.shearer@uuplc.co.uk]

Thanks Julk.

10 or 12 years ago I had a (then new) Galaxy with the larger diameter 531 tube set and also an ancient Galaxy with very grotty components that I used to use for the winter commute.

The old one appeared to have a much more slender frame and again was inherently more forgiving as a ride than the newer one.

I am heading out for an overnight trial camping trip this weekend, using the Randonneur so I'll see how that handles when loaded up before making a decision.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

Raleigh Randonneur and Dawes Galaxy range were at the time very comparible in every way, effectively the same type of bike from each manufacturer, so close that at the time price for price it was hard to chose between the two, Raleigh Special products and the Dawes workshops in Birmingham were on a par interms of workmanship.

The later Dawes models are made in a different factory and now welded instead of lugged and often with different tubing; geometry has not changed much and although the materials and construction methods will make a slight difference it should not be to the extent that you don't like it; as a bike fo similar size should ride very similar as it is simply a modern version of the same bike. The same applies to 3mm size difference, yes it will have an effect, but again not to the point where you don't like it.

I would expect that the main difference in how the bike rides is down to size issues even though you have in effect managed to dupicate the position.The rider is in effect part of the bike, on a smaller bike you will be further behind the bottom bracket for example as you have described with laid back seat pin, the position or as you have stated contact points of the rider may be similar on both bikes, but how that position relates to the bike will be different and effect how the bke feels as a result.

Of course it would be good to see you on both (pictures in side profile would be useful) to confirm what we expect that this is indeed the case; but it sounds to me that your plan on swapping all of the Galaxy components onto the Randonneur is in my opinion could well be the correct one.

Paul_Smith
Touring Tips

Hi - first post after lurking on the sidelines for months. Apologies for the length of this first post - difficult to describe problem.

I bought a Dawes Galaxy in 2004 to do the C2C ride, after having previously owned 3 others over a period of 20+years. At the time, I suspected I was being sold a frame size too small, but was assured by the (reputable and long established) LBS owner that it was right for me.

Over the past 3 years, I have really struggled to get comfortable on the bike - finally went for a fitting with Paul Hewitt earlier this year, who confirmed that the frame was really too small, but with a laid back seat post and change of saddle managed to get a theroetical correct fit.

I also have a Raleigh Randonneur that I built up from a donated frame and wheels last winter. The componentry is fairly old and low spec, but frame is good condition. This is a frame size bigger, but all the contact points are in pretty much the same position as my Galaxy (after the fitting with Paul). In theory then, the riding position is the same.

But the Raleigh is a dream to ride compared to the Galaxy, with a much softer and more comfortable ride. I suffer from lower back pain and can ride much greater distances on the Raleigh than on the Dawes.

The Raleigh frame dates from around 1990 I think and is badged as 531 frame and forks. The Dawes is 2003 or 2004 and I understood it to be 531 frame only. However Paul H pointed out to me that, although definitely badged up as a Galaxy, there are no 531 stickers on the frame!

The Galaxy frame had a larger diameter top tube and appears to have significantly thicker seat stays. The Galaxy rides on 32mm Schwalbe Marathons and the Randonneur on 35mm Continental Contacts.

Question is this - can the difference in comfort be solely down to the different tyres fitted to the two bikes or is there something more fundamental going on with the relative suppleness of the two frames?

Could I have a Galaxy badged, but not 531 frame? (I am sure it dates from before the change to 631 by the way).

At the moment, I am planning on swapping all of the Galaxy components onto the Randonneur to hopefully end up with a comfortable bike that is also well specced with modern and reliable componentry.

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks, Noel

[leftpoole]

Hello,
I have owned both models and at the same time. After a number of years with the Galaxy which I was happy with I aquired a Randonneur. After riding the Raleigh I sold the Galaxy.
Any other info not needed I think?
I ride solely Thorn bikes now however.
John.

[noel.shearer@uuplc.co.uk]

John - I'd be very interested to know what in particular you preferred about the Raleigh against the Dawes.

As I said in the OP, I have had 4 Galaxy's on and off for the last 30 years, 2 of them were the older style frames and 2 of them post 1990, with what I perceive to be a heavier built frame. Although I can't compare like with like, the Randonneur feels very much more like the "old" Galaxys I had. The most objective thing for me is the feeling of suppleness in the ride.

This weekend will be my first decent distance loaded ride on the Randonneur, so I should have a better feel for what to do then!

Why do you think that the Galaxy succeeded where the Randonneur failed - it seems everyone recommends Galaxy the minute a "which touring bike" thread pops up, whereas the Randonneur hardly ever gets a mention - even where people are talking about second hand bikes.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

The Dawes were more common even then than the Raleigh Randonneur, even though they were extremely similar, Dawes had a higher percentage of their overall sales in that sector of the market than Raleigh.

As such Dawes still concentrate in that area which they enjoyed such a healthy markey share, where as Raleigh no doubt look at their sales figures and simply conclude that it is no longer worth it.

Neither company enjoy the same place in the market now as back when the frames were made in the UK; then they were the market leaders in my opinion, no one is more sad than me that unfortunately now they are not; it was a pleasure to sell a market leading British made product. Their demise was in part because the likes of Trek and Specialized put more into R & D, which combined with improved manufacturer techniques from factories with far cheaper overheads were consequently able to offer a superior and cheaper product than both Raleigh and Dawes, when this started to happen the writing was in effect on the wall for both. Of course this applies more to the volume end of the market but a company needs to survive as a whole and to do that the whole range need to sell in quantities as well as the niche products; like touring bikes.

Interesting to note that many of the larger manufacturers do not sell that well their Raleigh Randonneur/Dawes Galaxy style touring bikes, Trek make a very comparible model called 520 yet is is seldom mentioned; they don't sell many either! The main reason why your old Galaxy feels like the Randonneur is that they are indeed very similar. I still expect that the main difference in riding characteristics between old and new Dawes bikes will be down to sizing issues, although it will to an extent also be that the older 531 horizontal diamond shaped frame will no doubt feel slightly more 'supple' than the compact modern versions with stiffer tubing.

Paul_Smith
Touring Tips

John - I'd be very interested to know what in particular you preferred about the Raleigh against the Dawes.

As I said in the OP, I have had 4 Galaxy's on and off for the last 30 years, 2 of them were the older style frames and 2 of them post 1990, with what I perceive to be a heavier built frame. Although I can't compare like with like, the Randonneur feels very much more like the "old" Galaxys I had. The most objective thing for me is the feeling of suppleness in the ride.

This weekend will be my first decent distance loaded ride on the Randonneur, so I should have a better feel for what to do then!

Why do you think that the Galaxy succeeded where the Randonneur failed - it seems everyone recommends Galaxy the minute a "which touring bike" thread pops up, whereas the Randonneur hardly ever gets a mention - even where people are talking about second hand bikes.

[noel.shearer@uuplc.co.uk]

Yes, they feel and look very similar. Not surprising that there are so many queries on forums about position changes etc, when two such apparently similar bikes and positions can feel so different!

The strange thing is that I was out on my normal Sunday morning ride with a mate, moaning about the comfort on the Galaxy and saying I may investigate getting a bigger frame, when I was quite litterally accosted by an old guy (ran down the street fater us, shouting!) having a garage clearout who asked if either of us could use the remains of his Randonneur!
Seems it will now become my favourite bike.

Noel

[Paul Smith SRCC]

The Raleigh Special products Randonneur was normally a metalic black with silver head tube, some of the older models were a metalic burgundy colour which later moved down to the lower model called a 'Royal' (same frame) then later to the 'Touriste' which had 531 main tubes only. Another inidcation will be the attention to detail these bikes had, spoke holder brazed on pips on the chainstay, both a good way of carrying spare spokes that doubled as a stay protector.

The did not even use the name initially when production moved abroad, the later built frames were I think red; never stocked them so can not recall them that well, recall having one in for repair; could be wrong though as only a distant memory!

If that is what you have then for sure you have a well built well designed frame that will be comfortable and stable when loaded

Paul_Smith
Touring Tips

Yes, they feel and look very similar. Not surprising that there are so many queries on forums about position changes etc, when two such apparently similar bikes and positions can feel so different!

The strange thing is that I was out on my normal Sunday morning ride with a mate, moaning about the comfort on the Galaxy and saying I may investigate getting a bigger frame, when I was quite litterally accosted by an old guy (ran down the street fater us, shouting!) having a garage clearout who asked if either of us could use the remains of his Randonneur!
Seems it will now become my favourite bike.

Noel

[noel.shearer@uuplc.co.uk]

It is a metallic grey colour with white head tube. I've seen very similar bikes advertised on EBay, which I think seemed to date from around 1990. As you say it has 2 brazed on spoke carriers on the chainstay.

The only oddity I came across when building it up was that the hole in the "bridge" across the seat stays, that I assume carries a brake cable adjuster, is only about 3mm diameter - smaller than a normal cable adjuster hole - and I couldn't get a correctly sized adjuster. Any idea where I might source one? (I made up a small plate that I could bolt on there and fitted a normal sized adjuster, but this arrangement is a bit flimsy and I would rather revert to the stock set up if possible.)

Hope that makes sense - difficult for me to describe.

[AlbionLass]

I remember the grey colour scheme (it came with a honey coloured B17 as standard) from my time working in a Raleigh dealer in 1991, I almost bought a Randonneur myself from RSP, we had one in the shop all the while I worked there (£749, a vast sum to me in those days) but it was a 21" and too small for me but in the end bought a Touriste (which was indeed burgundy) as I was feeling mean despite my staff discount.

[noel.shearer@uuplc.co.uk]

Well that confirms the date for me!

Curiously, the parts I ended up putting on my frame from either the spares bin, E-Bay or the local tip included a 105 groupset and a honey coloured B17. I have since found that both would have been included as standard kit!

As you can see - all of the coincidences etc are clearly pointing to this being the "right" bike for me!

Noel

[Paul Smith SRCC]

Yes that is the UK model, I had remembered the head tube colour incorrectly.

I can't recall how the cable stop arrangement on the rear but a 3mm neat one is ringing a little bell somewhere in a very dark corner of my little memory bank I seem to recall them being a pain at the time as they were so small they were hard to turn/use as an adjuster as the whole thing was very small, not just the threaded section, so effectively just a cable stop.

In your case I recall the seatbolts on some of bikes were very neat, effectively an internal allen key bolt as one side of the lug was threaded to pull it closed; as apposed to an external type like , if like the latter then something like this is an option, if the former then it is a bit more tricky, someone may have an adjuster somewhere, although a simple cable stop as used in brake outers will suffice, for sure it means you lose the adjustment facility but as I inply above they were not that great anyway! A possible alternative would be something like this , the hole at the top goes through the seat bolt and between the groove in the seat lug, the grove will need to be quite wide to accomodate it of course; worth checking as it may not be, some closed up to next to nothing

Paul_Smith
Touring Tips

It is a metallic grey colour with white head tube. I've seen very similar bikes advertised on EBay, which I think seemed to date from around 1990. As you say it has 2 brazed on spoke carriers on the chainstay.

The only oddity I came across when building it up was that the hole in the "bridge" across the seat stays, that I assume carries a brake cable adjuster, is only about 3mm diameter - smaller than a normal cable adjuster hole - and I couldn't get a correctly sized adjuster. Any idea where I might source one? (I made up a small plate that I could bolt on there and fitted a normal sized adjuster, but this arrangement is a bit flimsy and I would rather revert to the stock set up if possible.)

Hope that makes sense - difficult for me to describe.

[noel.shearer@uuplc.co.uk]

Blimey Paul - what a mine of information I have tapped!

The seat clamp bolt is indeed a very nice arrangement - exactly as you describe.

The third photo looks like what I might need but it may interfere with the location of the bridge - I'll have a look tonight. Alternatively, as you say, a simple cable stop might be the way to go.

Thanks very much for your help.

Noel

[reohn2]

I've been foollowing this thread with interest.I always admired the Raleigh Randoneur particularly the small attention to detail like the spoke holders on the chainstay etc.
Paul I don't know if you can help with this but there were some Randoneurs made from Renolds 708 tubing can you tell us anything about it in comparison to 531st?

PS got to say i've been tempted by Randoneurs on Ebay before now.