Roberts v Thorn v Dawes v Surly

[horizon]

If anyone is still following this thread (horizon, there have been other things happening in the world! Ed.) I thought I would post an update.

The most surprising thing to me has been how Thorn still manage to hold the top spot by a long way. This is for six reasons:

1. They are the firm that appears to best address the top tube issue (i.e. longer top tube for straight bars, shorter for drops).
2. They seem to have the best sorted and most appropriate component list (e.g. bar end shifters, V brakes etc).
3. They fit in between the big names and the custom builders - there are few of these (depending on how you rate Surly).
4. They really embrace the 26" wheel tourer concept.
5. They are local to me and I think that matters. Paul Hewitt comes close to Thorn but distance is an issue.
6. They have the most informative website.

Four other builders got serious consideration but their websites made it appear that dropping in or long telephone calls would be the only way to get the information I needed. These were Vernon Barker (number two to Thorn), Paul Hewitt, Orbit and Byer Cycles. Again, surprisingly, the website issue was key and I've started a new thread on it.

I still have the other two issues to resolve: whether to get a frame and forks only and whether a new bike will really give me much more than my present Sardar.

[pete75]

whether a new bike will really give me much more than my present Sardar.

Given your post about the Sardar in "The Tea Shop" I think there's only one answer to that. Stay with the machine you know well and obviously regard with much affection.

[John1054]

Just go with what you've posted. We've never been in any way disappointed with either of our Thorns. Also everyone at Bridgwater have always been very helpful, whether we've been buying, visiting or just asking for help/advice. Good luck! John.

[horizon]

I've been making the changes that I need on my Sardar. I've shortened the reach, am in the middle of lowering the gears and am re-arranging the rear lighting to work with luggage. It will still have a couple of defects: the steerer is festooned with a stem raiser, the forks are too narrow to take my existing Snow-Studs, I would like V brakes and the wheels are coming to the end of their lives. It seemed a good time to get a frame that properly fitted and to replace aging components. One thing I will say though is that the process of both exploring the options and making changes to the Sardar has left me with greater insight - obvious to many, I'm sure, but not completely so to me:

1. This type of bike is the bike that replaces the car - it can do it.
2. A bike really is a frame - everything else is negotiable. But things need to be kept simple and compatible to allow for mixing and matching.
3. This type of light, fast but practical and heavy duty bike with 26" wheels has, to my mind, the greatest potential in terms of changing one's way of life and yet seems to attract the least support from both frame builders and whole bike suppliers. As far as I could see, a Bob Jackson off-the-peg frame for example would be cheaper, potentially better made and have a wide colour choice but (unless I have missed something) is not available in this style.

The process by the way continues.

[Brucey]

it has always seemed to me that the Carrera Subway represents a very good alternative for this sort of bike, at substantially less cost.

BTW ancient Raleighs, Rudges etc were not a million miles away either. Of course they have IGHs, which raises the practicality bar considerably...

cheers

[meic]

If you are happy to use dérailleurs then the 1980's MTBs do this job very well (especially the Raleigh ones ).

They are knocking around for a pittance, why pay for a Thorn?
Though it is probably a nice upgrade to fit a 531 Thorn set of forks on the old MTB for rack braze ons and a nicer ride.

[horizon]

If you are happy to use dérailleurs then the 1980's MTBs do this job very well (especially the Raleigh ones ).

They are knocking around for a pittance, why pay for a Thorn?
Though it is probably a nice upgrade to fit a 531 Thorn set of forks on the old MTB for rack braze ons and a nicer ride.

I have my second hand (£90) Dawes Edge 1991 top-of-the-range 531 MTB - brilliant. I'm currently refurbishing it and forks are a possibility. The Thorn just happens to come with new parts and the frame won't (yet) need a powdercoat. But I did review it the other day and came to exactly the same conclusion - it could actually do the job as well as or even better than the Sardar or new Thorn. Hence my continuing deliberation. Otherwise though this is new-bike indulgence (I won't be the first person to buy a new bike ). The real problem is that the new bike is a treat so logic may go out of the window. However I must say again that this is all a (very slow) learning process - what bike(s) do I really need/want and why and how does what is out there meet those needs.

[meic]

I have the old Raleigh for doing the hard work (it is called the Mule) and my nice expensive lightweight bike as the indulgence.

Rest assured that your deliberations are bound to be made redundant in a few years time by changes in your circumstances, attitudes and fitness.

[horizon]

it has always seemed to me that the Carrera Subway represents a very good alternative for this sort of bike, at substantially less cost.

Yes, but my price point is about £1200 for a complete bike. This rules out custom build but allows me to enjoy a quality steel frame and good components. My Edge would be preferred over a Subway. The money isn't the problem as I can (and have in the past) gone second hand. The issue for me is defining the bike for the job.

BTW ancient Raleighs, Rudges etc were not a million miles away either. Of course they have IGHs, which raises the practicality bar considerably...

Yes, but they are a million miles away now whereas Thorn isn't (120 miles away to be precise). This could all be in my imagination but somewhere out there is an elusive but real enough concept that takes riding a bike over a very interesting threshold - the point at which (with judicious use of trains) it replaces lots of, if not all, journeys by car. This is not a leisure bike but a mode of transport that ticks a lot of boxes.

[JohnW]

Horizon.....one of the downsides of living in the lovely part of Britain where you live is that you're a long way from Harrogate, and Spa..............

[vjosullivan]

Horizon.....one of the downsides of living in the lovely part of Britain where you live is that you're a long way from Harrogate, and Spa..............

It's not so far, if it gets you what you want. I live near the south coast and am fortunate enough to have a car. It was a day trip to Harrogate and back to get my last bike.

[JohnW]

Horizon.....one of the downsides of living in the lovely part of Britain where you live is that you're a long way from Harrogate, and Spa..............

It's not so far, if it gets you what you want. I live near the south coast and am fortunate enough to have a car. It was a day trip to Harrogate and back to get my last bike.

.....flippin' 'eck vj - I'd only do that for a bike - if I had a car that is. What's that? - 250 miles each way?

[reohn2]

Horizon
You don't go jumping in with both feet do you?
I'm surprised it's taken this long for you not to make up your mind

TBH if you sat down and thought it through,within an hour you'd know the bike you want(it's a Sherpa isn't it? )so stop dithering and write the check

[coffeedrinker]

I followed this subject in its early stages for a number of pages but there are a number of pages I haven't seen , so this could have already been pointed if it has - its no harm done .This isn't a Roberts, Thorn, Dawes or a Surly but did you see on page 20 of the CTC CYCLE magazine April/May 2013 a photo and a small write up on a Ridgeback Expedition . The bike is a tourer (not yet on the market) with 26" wheels and 520 Raynolds frame . There is no price given but it looks great and Ridgeback give good value for money . It could be worth waiting to see what it looks like when it hits the shops .

[tyreon]

Horizon.

What equivication!! Read your comments and advice on here several times. Respect! Shining shoes: you seem to know what yer talking about: what's with the hesitation? I think you already know what yer going for. Enuf of this dilly-dallying,go for new+++!

Guess I'm sufferin' from transference,but I think you deserve a nice new bike. Don't stint on yourself. You sound a commited/experienced cyclist. I don't want you to waste £,but at the end of it all is the doctors nursing home: Dunroamin! If you have £'s left,then those £s you have will be taken from you.I don't want it for you. Wouldn't like to compete against you on cycling knowledge,but 26" wheels: you sure you will be cycling in Eastern Turkey? 700c maybe more appropriate. How much loadin' and touring are you planning to do? I picture you on a nice new Thorn. Doctor and Matron won't be pleased,but your new steed will please you,I'm sure.

Please post pics,befor the change,and after. Whatever you do,take care. Happy miles.