Helmet use post Richardson death

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )

Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby mlteenie » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:40 am

What does everyone think are the implications for helmet use post Natasha Richardson's unfortunate death following her accident while skiing, by all reports a very minor impact?
I myself don't wear a helmet any more despite landing on my head last year.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby thirdcrank » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:39 am

I've just listened to the 0800 news on radio 4 -they managed to get a plug in for cycling helmets, but no mention of any other activity that might endanger the unprotected bonce.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby Si » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:00 am

My prediction is lots of prolonged discussion on internet fora, some quite heated, various amounts of hand bags at dawn, lots of repitition and virtually no one's views changed (apart from new enemies made) despite all the ho-har.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby pioneer » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:40 am

Sadly, Ms. Richardsons death was probably the result of a very tragic accident. No more,no less.

And yes, Radio 4 (again), and others will use it as an excuse to wrap us all in cotton-wool. There was a case in Essex this week where a Judge suggested that a cyclist who had been knocked off by a motorcyclist (entirely the fault of the motorcyclist BTW,no dispute), could be deemed to be at fault himself,"contributory negligence", because he wasn't wearing a cycling helmet. Thanks Judge. We can see where you stand.

Accidents happen. Sad but true.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby hubgearfreak » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:54 am

Si wrote:My prediction is lots of prolonged discussion on internet fora, some quite heated, various amounts of hand bags at dawn, lots of repitition and virtually no one's views changed (apart from new enemies made) despite all the ho-har.


very good. :lol:
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby noonoosdad » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:10 am

:? Wearing a Cycling Helmet is not 'Wrapping people in Cotton Wool' but just plain and simple 'Good Common Sense'.
The chances of coming of a two wheeled machine either by falling or being forced off in a collision must be fairly high
and I certainly wouldn't take a chance and always wear a Helmet. Let's face it, when I used to Horse ride when I was in my teens, I would wear a helmet and when I used to ride a motorcycle, I wouldn't dream of getting on it without.
I just don't fancy spending the rest of my life eating through a straw as a worse case scenario.
In the words of Jacques Cousteau," Il est tout mon cul et Betty Grable !"
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby leftpoole » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:27 am

noonoosdad wrote::? Wearing a Cycling Helmet is not 'Wrapping people in Cotton Wool' but just plain and simple 'Good Common Sense'.
The chances of coming of a two wheeled machine either by falling or being forced off in a collision must be fairly high
and I certainly wouldn't take a chance and always wear a Helmet. Let's face it, when I used to Horse ride when I was in my teens, I would wear a helmet and when I used to ride a motorcycle, I wouldn't dream of getting on it without.
I just don't fancy spending the rest of my life eating through a straw as a worse case scenario.


Hello,
My agreement in full for the above.
However I should like to point out, that you are wasting your time with your views on here as all you will get is a response from no hopers who will blast you for your view.
They all think that they are immortal and outside of the need for some safety attempt. I would also like to say that in my experience that its a waste of time trying to convert the ungodly!
John.............. :cry:
Last edited by leftpoole on Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby gilesjuk » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:32 am

If you have private medical insurance then by all means, take all the risks you like.

If you don't then I don't see why the someone else should go without a life saving drug or operation just because the NHS has had to scoop you up and fix you up.

It's entirely reasonable for people to expect you to do the best you can to reduce the chances of injury.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby thirdcrank » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:49 am

gilesuk

In that case, I think it would be reasonable to ask you (restricting your answer if poss to one page of A4) what physical precautions you take to protect yourself when cycling, in addition to perching a bit of polystyrene on top of your bonce?

(I speak as somebody who has always warn one of these things since they were introduced. I do so, simply to protect myself and my dependents from people who believe they offer more than minimal protection.)
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby pioneer » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:59 am

TC,

well said.

I just can't be doing with H and S' preachers in any shape or form.

And don't give me any old clap-trap about non-helmet wearers being treated post accident by the NHS.

If we really want to make best use of the NHS,lets do something really sensible like banning smoking FULL STOP and making a proper effort to get the nation fit by eating and drinking less and excercising more.

It's drunks,smokers and the overweight that clog up the NHS,not the odd cyclist that comes off thier bike. :evil:
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby Freddie » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:39 am

Good grief, helmets, such an emotive topic.

If we remove the emotion and look purely at the statistics, it's more likely you'll damage your head/break your neck falling down some stairs, but I've yet to see a helmet waiting to be donned at the top of stairs, surely this is "Good Common Sense".

Should we not protect ourselves from these "higher likelyhood of risk" activities, prior to jumping onto our own sport/hobby/mode of transport, there are plenty waiting in the wings to do that for us and diminish our rights as road users in the process.

No wonder everyone thinks "cycling is dangerous", when cyclists themselves willingly perpetuate such thinking.

There was a case in Essex this week where a Judge suggested that a cyclist who had been knocked off by a motorcyclist (entirely the fault of the motorcyclist BTW,no dispute), could be deemed to be at fault himself,"contributory negligence", because he wasn't wearing a cycling helmet. Thanks Judge. We can see where you stand.


So somehow by not wearing a helmet you're enticing motorists to run you down and probably deserve it, could this kind of dangerous thinking not be extended to many sectors(rich deserve to be robbed etc).

Let's face it, when I used to Horse ride when I was in my teens, I would wear a helmet and when I used to ride a motorcycle, I wouldn't dream of getting on it without.


No-one will ever have total control of a horse and the nature of the fall and greater height makes you more likely to land of your head. Personally, I'd find a motorcycle was pretty dangerous regardless of helmet (anyroad, doesn't it snap a fair amount of necks given the great mass and speed of the typical fall).

If you want to use a helmet, fair-do's, but please don't preach to everyone else how unsafe/stupid etc they are, unless you have successfully reduced/eliminated all "higher likelyhood" risks pertaining to your environment, though you may end up not leaving your home, which of course should be a bungalow, homes being exceedingly dangerous, stairs 'n all.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby meic » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:03 pm

I heard the story on Radio 4s evening programme yesterday.
The BBC presenter asked a leading skiing proffesional.
The presenter asked the loaded question. "As it is agreed that all responsible cyclists wear a helmet do you not think this should be extended to people skiing.
He replied by pointing out the flaws in the pro-cycle helmet theories and practices. Then said people should choose themselves.
If he is doing a serious downhill and taking risks he will wear a lid, for pootling around on skis for recreation on a nice sunny day it would be an unnecesary incumberance.
That is Good Common Sense.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby EdinburghFixed » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:30 pm

meic wrote:The presenter asked the loaded question. "As it is agreed that all responsible cyclists wear a helmet do you not think this should be extended to people skiing.


What I'd like to know is, when did this happen and why is it not being challenged? Really, the helmet manufacturers must be rubbing their hands in glee.

Could we not get the CTC to publish a statement to the effect that it is considered quite reasonable and responsible to ride without a helmet, given the lack of evidence of a benefit in population level studies and the emerging evidence of some disbenefits?

Nobody really cares if people do choose to wear a helmet but we are looking at a slippery slope where negligence might be assigned to a cyclist if his helmet was more than two years old, of a certain design, couldn't prove it was correctly fitted and fastened, etc. etc.
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby Si » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:32 pm

EdinburghFixed wrote:
meic wrote:The presenter asked the loaded question. "As it is agreed that all responsible cyclists wear a helmet do you not think this should be extended to people skiing.


What I'd like to know is, when did this happen and why is it not being challenged? Really, the helmet manufacturers must be rubbing their hands in glee.

Could we not get the CTC to publish a statement to the effect that it is considered quite reasonable and responsible to ride without a helmet, given the lack of evidence of a benefit in population level studies and the emerging evidence of some disbenefits?

Nobody really cares if people do choose to wear a helmet but we are looking at a slippery slope where negligence might be assigned to a cyclist if his helmet was more than two years old, of a certain design, couldn't prove it was correctly fitted and fastened, etc. etc.


http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4688
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Re: Helmet use post Richardson death

Postby gilesjuk » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:33 pm

I wasn't talking about cycling and helmets specifically. Just about safety in general.

There seems to be a specific group of reckless people who think Health and Safety is nonsense, think they're entitled to mangle themselves if they choose. As far as I'm concerned they can do so if they pay for their own medical treatment privately.

Treatment on the NHS is free to yourself, but your treatment comes out of a finite resource pool (both staff time and money), you may be condemning a pensioner to blindness or condemning a cancer patient to an early demise!

As far as precautions when cycling, I do as much as I can. I ensure I am easily visible day or night. I try to choose the safest route I can. But ultimately if someone is not looking at the road then there's nothing you can do!

At least I feel I have done all I can do, if someone else is negligent and knocks me off then it's not my fault.
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