Electric gear shifting?

[Mark1978]

How about 5 or 10 years ? How about 30?

Will replacements even be available in 20 years?

It's already just about impossible to find replacement parts for the original Ultegra Di2 10 speed. I've seen some people asking and they were advised to upgrade to 11 speed!
Whereas mechanical Ultega 10 speed (which I run) is still widely available.

[Mick F]

If I add up the weight ..... I reckon that a Rohloff is heavy.

If I could be bothered, I'd do the arithmetic again. I did it once but never recorded my results. .....

in the link I posted they have done that comparing it with kit you might use on a touring or trekking bike. I suspect that even if you choose rather less strong lightweight kit the difference is unlikely to be much more than a pound or so.

cheers

The things I do for "science".

Just spent a short while with a cuppa and a catalogue or two.
Here is the results of the Cornish jury.
Please note that I have guessed the weight of a Rohloff gear changer and any frame fixtures, plus I weighed a single 10sp 23t Centaur sprocket.
All other weights are as per the Campag catalogue and the Rohloff lightest version, plus for the single chainset I picked a (lightweight) Campag Pista.

Oh, and I didn't count the cables, chain or BB.

[reohn2]

Very true, particularly about the Garmin but they have proved reliable and many use nothing else. I never carry maps on the bike for a day ride, my son never carries a map in the car. Most of us would have a phone with Google maps as a back up also.

I agree most people these days do.
I'm on holiday ATM,yesterday I was on a 70mile journey with my SinL,he was using his smart phone for navigating,at one point he lost the signal at a point where he had to turn off the road we were on.I know the area,he doesn't,and was able to tell him to make a turn,his phone would have re routed him when the signal was regained but until then he would've been goosed if I hadn't been sat beside him.
Further into the journey he got a phone call(hands free via bluetooth I might add)again the mapping signal was interrupted,luckily this time we didn't need to turn off the road we were on.
The point I'm making is that electronics rely on other electronic chains that can break.
Mechanical chains(not just literally) can break but are fixable with knowledge and a bit of nous or a couple of small spares.

Electric shifting is very new but seems to have been reliable so far, if your battery were to fail I imagine you still have a gear of some sorts, no worse than a broken rear deralier.
Obviously the price is ridiculous for your average cyclist but I would expect this to drop considerably in time. The bike I had a go on was an ex demo carbon Focus, they wanted about £2000 for it or there abouts.

I wonder, if in the future the price point became very close to that of mechanical shifting whether the choice for many would be different. Maybe if they can't reduce the cost then it will fade away but having seen how most technology progresses maybe it's here to stay? Shimano aren't the only manufacturer on the bandwaggon.

See above for electronic chains,in the case of EGS,should it fail for whatever reason the roadside fixability is limited,to one gear.
With mechanical gear shifting,other than a complete mech mangle,some gears will be available if only two or three via the front mech because it's two separate and independent simple systems,there is a beauty in this realised by long time users of it,that is what's being argued,furthermore if that mechanical system is Shimano and 9sp or less any rear mech(bar some old obscure Dura Ace mechs) from Tourney at about £7 a pop to DuraAce,think of a number and double it ,can be used to get the tourist out of the mire.

If EGS becomes as cheap as present mechanical shifting many will buy it but it still won't eliminate it's inherent problems which are like the little girl with the curl.

PS disc brakes aren't lighter either but they seem to be the future on lightweight road bikes - most manufacturers have them in their range. Again the cost is higher, the gains small and specific hubs are required but I'd have them if the opportunity arose, not because of fashion but because I consider rim brakes so poor.

Disc brakes are a real advantage despite their weight gain,I like the predictability of their modulation and power especially in wet and mucky conditions,which for me and I suspect many others who use them is a real plus.
They also have the advantage of no rim wear and loonngg pad life for road use,less so for MTB use but still much better than rim brakes,yes super no wear rims can be bought but at a price which far exceeds the cost of disc brakes.

My remark about lightness was a leettle tongue in cheek hence the ,because weight seems to be the be all and end all for a lot of people,when most of those people could shed 500g by carrying only one bidon,or loose one or two kgs off themselves,yet they'll pay hundreds if not thousands of £££'s to shed the same of their bikes

[Mark1978]

I'm on holiday ATM,yesterday I was on a 70mile journey with my SinL,he was using his smart phone for navigating,at one point he lost the signal at a point where he had to turn off the road we were on.I know the area,he doesn't,and was able to tell him to make a turn,his phone would have re routed him when the signal was regained but until then he would've been goosed if I hadn't been sat beside him.

Rookie error. It's usual to have no signal when out riding, which is why there are a multitude of apps which have pre-loaded maps and don't require a phone signal to operate. It's the likes of Google who have made everyone think that a phone signal is required at all times for a simple task such as navigation.

[reohn2]

Except the intelligence is in the kit not the rider.

You can say that again.

I have to admit that wasn't in my mind when I wrote it but it made me chuckle afterwards. There's something intrinsically ironic about the whole thing.

How very true

[RickH]

Rookie error. It's usual to have no signal when out riding, which is why there are a multitude of apps which have pre-loaded maps and don't require a phone signal to operate. It's the likes of Google who have made everyone think that a phone signal is required at all times for a simple task such as navigation.

Even Google maps let's you download an area (in theory, I've never used the facility in anger). Does anyone know what is downloaded? Is it just what you can see on screen, or is all the underlying detail, that only appears as you zoom in, as well?

Rick

[reohn2]

Where is your evidence of that? HAve you tested a di2 li-ion battery in such conditions to see how long it lasts between charges unused in a shed.
The actuality as per users is that the batteries are fine over a winter of not being used (Oct-feb) but I guess you couldn't be bothered to find that out before making presumptions like others about kit you know nothing about...

Li Power tool batteries,if not used for a months need their batteries 'recycling'ie; a few charges to get them upto optimum again.

[reohn2]

I'm on holiday ATM,yesterday I was on a 70mile journey with my SinL,he was using his smart phone for navigating,at one point he lost the signal at a point where he had to turn off the road we were on.I know the area,he doesn't,and was able to tell him to make a turn,his phone would have re routed him when the signal was regained but until then he would've been goosed if I hadn't been sat beside him.

Rookie error. It's usual to have no signal when out riding, which is why there are a multitude of apps which have pre-loaded maps and don't require a phone signal to operate. It's the likes of Google who have made everyone think that a phone signal is required at all times for a simple task such as navigation.

TBH I've no idea,I don't own a smartphone(though will do shortly).
Would a map app cost or is it free? ie; for,say France.

[Mark1978]

I'm on holiday ATM,yesterday I was on a 70mile journey with my SinL,he was using his smart phone for navigating,at one point he lost the signal at a point where he had to turn off the road we were on.I know the area,he doesn't,and was able to tell him to make a turn,his phone would have re routed him when the signal was regained but until then he would've been goosed if I hadn't been sat beside him.

Rookie error. It's usual to have no signal when out riding, which is why there are a multitude of apps which have pre-loaded maps and don't require a phone signal to operate. It's the likes of Google who have made everyone think that a phone signal is required at all times for a simple task such as navigation.

TBH I've no idea,I don't own a smartphone(though will do shortly).
Would a map app cost or is it free? Ie; for,say France.

It depends! You can get free nagivation apps such as Nav Free. Then there are paid for versions such as TomTom.

Many of these are meant for cars so cycle routing might be iffy but fine if you fine tune the route yourself in advance.

[reohn2]

It depends! You can get free nagivation apps such as Nav Free. Then there are paid for versions such as TomTom.

Many of these are meant for cars so cycle routing might be iffy but fine if you fine tune the route yourself in advance.

Thanks for that Mark.
It was primarily car use I was thinking of,on the bike I like a paper map to explore,in the car more often than not the destination is the goal.

[[XAP]Bob]

If I add up the weight ..... I reckon that a Rohloff is heavy.

If I could be bothered, I'd do the arithmetic again. I did it once but never recorded my results. .....

in the link I posted they have done that comparing it with kit you might use on a touring or trekking bike. I suspect that even if you choose rather less strong lightweight kit the difference is unlikely to be much more than a pound or so.

cheers

The things I do for "science".

Just spent a short while with a cuppa and a catalogue or two.
Here is the results of the Cornish jury.
Please note that I have guessed the weight of a Rohloff gear changer and any frame fixtures, plus I weighed a single 10sp 23t Centaur sprocket.
All other weights are as per the Campag catalogue and the Rohloff lightest version, plus for the single chainset I picked a (lightweight) Campag Pista.

Weights.png

Oh, and I didn't count the cables, chain or BB.

BB is same.
Cables are pretty much the same, an extra foot of cable for the rolhoff.
Chain is probably there or thereabouts - thicker, but shorter on the IGH
You've missed the replacement brake levers though.
What are the frame fittings? NTWs?

[[XAP]Bob]

How about 5 or 10 years ? How about 30?

Will replacements even be available in 20 years?

It's already just about impossible to find replacement parts for the original Ultegra Di2 10 speed. I've seen some people asking and they were advised to upgrade to 11 speed!
Whereas mechanical Ultega 10 speed (which I run) is still widely available.

And that is their death knell for me.

[reohn2]

How about 5 or 10 years ? How about 30?

Will replacements even be available in 20 years?

It's already just about impossible to find replacement parts for the original Ultegra Di2 10 speed. I've seen some people asking and they were advised to upgrade to 11 speed!
Whereas mechanical Ultega 10 speed (which I run) is still widely available.

And that is their death knell for me.

And,sadly many others too with Ultegra 10sp Di2

[Mark1978]

It depends! You can get free nagivation apps such as Nav Free. Then there are paid for versions such as TomTom.

Many of these are meant for cars so cycle routing might be iffy but fine if you fine tune the route yourself in advance.

Thanks for that Mark.
It was primarily car use I was thinking of,on the bike I like a paper map to explore,in the car more often than not the destination is the goal.

In that case NavFree will do you fine - I'm talking about the iPhone version, other phones may vary.

When we were in Spain last year I had TomTom (about £40 I think) on my iPhone and my wife had Nav Free (Free!) on hers, and honestly apart from the TomTom interface being a bit easier to read there was very little to choose between the two, they both worked perfectly well, and of course no phone signal required.

[Samuel D]

(Off-topic: although it’s free, Nokia’s Here Maps app is probably among the best mapping/sat-nav apps with an offline option. Available for iPhone, Android, and Windows phones. Very easy to use interface compared to most, and the maps are top quality.)