Old drop bar bikes and riding position.

[drossall]

On my Holdsworth, they are possibly a fraction lower than I might have set them myself, but not much. IIRC, Richard's Bicycle Book advised that the bottom of the lever should be along the line of the drops extended forward, pretty-much as 1942alexander has his on that beautiful restoration job - really enjoyed those pictures. Pity I'm nowhere near Lancashire to hope to see the bike on the road.

In practice, the shape and position of the bars affects this advice - wouldn't work for tatanab's more angular bends. Freiston has his levers roughly in the recommended position, but then chose to turn his bars up more than would most riders.

MickF offers an interesting comparison, with modern and older levers on the same bars. The modern ones are possibly slightly higher, but not much, though small changes can be significant. No-one's denying that modern, chunkier levers are more comfortable.

In terms of riding long distances, I found a good shot on rouleur.cc that shows how the great champion Francesco Moser had his levers set - too large to put in this thread, so follow the link. He'll have ridden all day, most days, and been typical of most pros who did the same.

Forward reach and vertical position would also affect comfort, of course - how far are you reaching to get to the levers?

In short, though, I didn't find the position a problem when I rode the bike on an Audax recently.

[Trigger]

Look/appear/seem uncomfortable, but have you tried it

Yes, I bought an old Holdsworth a couple of years back and I couldn't ride it, had to swap the bars and levers, it looked stupid but it was the only way I could ride it.

In terms of riding long distances, I found a good shot on rouleur.cc that shows how the great champion Francesco Moser had his levers set - too large to put in this thread, so follow the link. He'll have ridden all day, most days, and been typical of most pros who did the same.

Yes, just the sort of long distance cycling I do, so basically until I'm at the level of Moser I won't be able to ride a drop bar bike comfortably? Well I guess that's sorted it.

[1942alexander]

This is a photo I took of Jim Bailey, a real tough guy on a bike. This was taken about 1960 when he was at his best. He's riding a 25 time trial on the Copster course on the Preston to Whalley road, long since abandoned. He was best known for his amazing feats on a tandem with Jack Forrest and they still hold the 24hour record with 492 miles. Although the handlebars appear to be tilted up slightly, it still looks like the drops are still in line with the lever ends. I would imagine that this position was transferred to the tandem for his record attempts, including end to ends, so he must have found it comfortable. Notice also the wing nuts and Sturmey Archer rear hub.

[freiston]

This is a photo I took of Jim Bailey, a real tough guy on a bike. This was taken about 1960 when he was at his best. He's riding a 25 time trial on the Copster course on the Preston to Whalley road, long since abandoned. He was best known for his amazing feats on a tandem with Jack Forrest and they still hold the 24hour record with 492 miles. Although the handlebars appear to be tilted up slightly, it still looks like the drops are still in line with the lever ends. I would imagine that this position was transferred to the tandem for his record attempts, including end to ends, so he must have found it comfortable. Notice also the wing nuts and Sturmey Archer rear hub.

jimBailey 001.jpg

Pesonally, I don't think that Jim Bailey's handlebar/lever setup is that different from my 1980 setup - my bars and hood angles are slightly more up-turned

Maybe I just don't get it but most of the pics posted look uncomfortable with the old levers around the bend of the bars.

All except for the last pic with the bars twisted and the levers further up look painful.

'twasn't painful at all - very comfortable and most pleasant with bent elbows and a saddle of roughly equal height to the stem. After many years out of the saddle, I have returned with a modern bike that has 'compact' bars and modern tektro levers (not brifters - my gear levers are bar-end). The new levers/hoods are very comfortable but I find that the short ramp of the bars means that I have lost a riding position of 'on the ramps' and that the difference in my back-angle between riding on the hoods and on the tops is too small to give the relief of a position-change (which is the main reason that I change my hand-position on the bars - with the exception of riding on the drops, which I predominantly do for aerodynamic benefit).

For comparison, here is my current bar/lever setup:

[Trigger]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear, I was saying that all the other pictures apart from yours looked painful.

Yours are the only ones that I could imagine riding and you got snubbed for them being "six shooters", says it all.

I'm not sure pictures of people riding the TDF or record breakers doing club time trials are of any use when talking about cycle touring, if by those pictures you're implying drop bars are only for racing snakes then I guess that answers my question and why flat bars are so popular with normal folk.

[ChrisButch]

I'm not sure pictures of people riding the TDF or record breakers doing club time trials are of any use when talking about cycle touring, if by those pictures you're implying drop bars are only for racing snakes then I guess that answers my question and why flat bars are so popular with normal folk.

That would be a mistaken conclusion.By the time I started in the late 50s dropped bars were pretty much universal among CTC riders and other tourists. One or two people still rode what were then called 'semi-dropped', but they were rare. If you see photos of that time and the subsequent decades of, for instance, the York Rally and its parade through the city, you'd be hard put to it to spot a single rider not on drops.

[1942alexander]

I'm not sure pictures of people riding the TDF or record breakers doing club time trials are of any use when talking about cycle touring, if by those pictures you're implying drop bars are only for racing snakes then I guess that answers my question and why flat bars are so popular with normal folk.

I posted what essentially are the only photos I have. You have to realise that in those days, racing and touring were done on the same bike. If we did ten thousand miles per year then probably only ten per cent were racing miles. In the CTC section that I joined no one used anything except drops.

[freiston]

Cheers Trigger Sorry for misinterpreting you Regarding the 'six-shooters' - I don't ride in packs and so the risk of getting a 'ribbing' by other riders and of impaling another rider is greatly reduced

I wouldn't say that drop bars are only for racers - there are many positions to hold such handlebars and on the drops is only one. Riding on the drops can give some serious relief on a long straight road in the fens with a head-wind and is also good fun on a long downhill stretch elsewhere. I've considered using other types of bar and before I returned to cycling and got myself a 'proper' bike, I had a cheap rigid mountain bike type affair with slicks and full mudguards and straight bars - found them very uncomfortable after a few miles; bar-ends might have solved the problem but drop bars do so much more.

[LollyKat]

Have a look at Cyclists' Special, a wonderful short film from 1955 of a CTC day out. Lots of drop bars but no lycra in sight.

[Ayesha]

The best place to put the handlebars is where they position the arms and spine for the cyclist to get the most power per heart rate.
Some cyclists might prefer to lose a little physiological efficiency in exchange for aerodynamics, but that depends on which factor reduces the 25 mile time.

Copying someone else is NOT the wisest thing to do.

[Ayesha]

Have a look at Cyclists' Special, a wonderful short film from 1955 of a CTC day out. Lots of drop bars but no lycra in sight.

Or this.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/cycli ... BIRMINGHAM

I have been told recently my Uncle went on this ride. He was thirteen.

Some of us are lucky enough to already be in Warwickshire.

[Vorpal]

My first bikes all had suicide levers, so I rode mostly on the tops, and sometimes on the drops, but didn't have any hoods.

When I was teenager, I bought a used Raleigh Super Grand Prix which did have hoods, and I remember having some difficulty with the brakes. I think I resolved it by getting used to braking from the drops. IIRC, I considered putting suicide levers on it, but I think I was advised not to (I don't remember for certain).

[Ayesha]

I had a Peugeot with 'safety handles' from 1975 to late nineties.

I rode my first Audax BR on it in 1995.

When cruising, I rested my hands 'On the bends' and operated the brakes by pushing the safety handles upward with my fingertips.
When things got tough, like down Winnats pass on the Castleton Classic, I slid my hands forward and pulled the proper levers with my index and middle fingers.

I have a Spesh SWorks with FSA Wing bars. They have a mysterious hollow effect just behind where the brake hoods are on the bars.
This is for the HEEL of the palm to fit in so the centre of the palm rests on the top of the Shimano Ultegra handles. The index finger and middle finger loop over the top of the brake lever, and a low power braking can be done.
With practice, the little pinkie and ring finger change gear.

[samsbike]

Have a look at Cyclists' Special, a wonderful short film from 1955 of a CTC day out. Lots of drop bars but no lycra in sight.

Thanks a great movie thanks. It appeared that most bars were saddle height and in the first clip one bike had a really look headtube. Nice to see that even the A group sported mudguards.

[Quaker Mike]

I got my first "bum up head down" bike in 1945 or '46. A pre-war James Ace, it had steel drops with the sort of steel brake levers that curved outwards from the pivot, and were mounted where the bottom of the bends met the drops. The bars were mounted with the drops more or less parallel with the ground. No tape, just rubber grips on the drops, and as mentioned above, cold hands when on the tops. There were really only two riding positions, tops or drops, the bend had insufficient grip to be held for long. Nevertheless, I did a few thousand very comfortable miles on this bike, until a large sow decided to flop down on it when it was laid down in some long grass. It's amazing what damage 20 stone of pig can do

All its replacements since have over the years been much as variously described above, and nostalgia says none have been as comfortable, but the reality is that the most recent replacement, a Dalesman with brifters and padded tape has more position options and they're more comfortable than any of the others.